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Styled door and window classes in remodel.


Ramon PG

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3 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

They are indeed. So what is the container class for the Door + what are the attribute settings for that class + what attributes is the Door displaying in the drawing?

 

When I drop the door from the RM it arrives with Door-Main class. Maybe that's the way I made it originally and it won't budge?

The Pen class attributes show correctly, but are actually not controlled by the class. Editing the parameters (below) do nothing to the door.

 

 

image.thumb.png.4d5b701f332057b3ce53e6b1017a4e11.png

 

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You set the container class for the Door in the Plug-in Object Style Options (right-click on the Door Style in the RM). The Class setting can either be by style - which means it can only be edited in the Plug-in Object Style Options dialog - or by instance, in which case it can be edited from the OIP on an object by object basis.

 

I have no idea why your Door objects aren't taking on the attributes of the class they're assigned to: perhaps it'd be easier if you posted a file as this should be a very simple thing.

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9 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

You set the container class for the Door in the Plug-in Object Style Options (right-click on the Door Style in the RM). The Class setting can either be by style - which means it can only be edited in the Plug-in Object Style Options dialog - or by instance, in which case it can be edited from the OIP on an object by object basis.

 

I have no idea why your Door objects aren't taking on the attributes of the class they're assigned to: perhaps it'd be easier if you posted a file as this should be a very simple thing.

Changing the Door Style, either by Class or Instance will revert to the Door-Main class and no change will happen.

 

File is 60 mbs. Not sure where to post it.

 

 

image.png.46dcac9a4f6a635c5ade2cb5404a9465.png

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Just create a new file with a door in it + post it.

 

But changing the class in the PIO Style Options if the setting is set to by instance will only affect future instances of the door style, not any of the current ones in the drawing. To change the class of the existing doors you need to do it in the OIP if class is set to be by instance in the PIO style options.

 

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20 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Just create a new file with a door in it + post it.

 

But changing the class in the PIO Style Options if the setting is set to by instance will only affect future instances of the door style, not any of the current ones in the drawing. To change the class of the existing doors you need to do it in the OIP if class is set to be by instance in the PIO style options.

 

 

 

 

 

I'll check this.

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One of the doors the insertion class is set to be By Style:

51450642_Screenshot2023-05-03at15_53_55.thumb.png.a5aebcbfc4d470f1691e0997660c463d.png

 

The other is set to be By Instance:

1803405665_Screenshot2023-05-03at15_55_02.thumb.png.5b037d713cc6ebf1b6148abae5b215b6.png

 

I would have them all By Instance + 'Door-Existing' the default as you have it, then just manually change the class to 'Door-Demo' for those doors you'll be getting rid of. I mean draw everything up as 'Existing' initially (because that's what it is) then go round reassigning the objects (doors, walls, windows, etc) to demo classes once you decide what you're getting rid of.

 

My new doors I tend to assign to 'Door-Proposed' by style because they are different to any existing doors so they can be their own standalone style. And logically, why would you replace an existing door with a new door which is identical? Well if it was damaged perhaps, in which case you could use the same style + change the class by instance. It's up to you.

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7 minutes ago, Ramon PG said:

How can I use a styled door for Existing, Demo & New? Do I need to create three different styled doors?


….With records and data visualization.  I can’t see and advantage to having 3 different versions of a door style just because of a change in status.  I think this is even better than classing or design layers for showing status of items because in addition to having graphic control for different drawings, you also have reporting functionality, such as how many linear feet of wall will I be demolishing.  How many new doors am I buying vs repurposing, etc…

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@jeff prince I may have asked this in another thread, but still can't get my head around it:  in the data vis workflow, how do you deal with existing to remain/existing to remove/proposed walls, particularly where a single wall has all three types in one run?  Do you draw it all with an "existing"  data record, then split the wall and change the portions to be removed to a "removed" record, and then draw the new portions as separate wall segments with "proposed" data records, all with the same Class and Wall Style?

 

Is it then straight forward to create a Top/Plan SLVP with different graphics for remain/remove/proposed?

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13 minutes ago, E|FA said:

@jeff prince I may have asked this in another thread, but still can't get my head around it:  in the data vis workflow, how do you deal with existing to remain/existing to remove/proposed walls, particularly where a single wall has all three types in one run?  Do you draw it all with an "existing"  data record, then split the wall and change the portions to be removed to a "removed" record, and then draw the new portions as separate wall segments with "proposed" data records, all with the same Class and Wall Style?

 

Is it then straight forward to create a Top/Plan SLVP with different graphics for remain/remove/proposed?

 

 

Have you watched the VWX Uni course "REFURBISHMENT WORKFLOWS: CONSTRUCTION PHASING USING RECORD FORMATS AND DATA VIS"?

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13 minutes ago, E|FA said:

I did when it first posted, but I guess I should watch it again.

 

It has some really good ideas in it for these types of workflows.

Attached is a quickie example I just made up to illustrate the point.

 

What I like about it is the data visualization can essentially act as a script for controlling your viewports.  With a good classing, design layer, and data record strategy you can make complicated drawing sets a bit easier to manage and get consistent output.

814537441_EDNdatavis.vwx

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5 hours ago, jeff prince said:

What I like about it is the data visualization can essentially act as a script for controlling your viewports.

 

That is a good point. On the design layer, Saved Views are a very powerful + easy way to control class/layer visibility + Data Vis settings but on sheet layers you don't have that option. Here, Data Vis has the advantage. On the design layer I personally prefer to control visibility via classes rather than Data Vis, just because it's easier to keep a handle on: you can see at a glance what's going on in the Navigation palette or Organisation dialog (Visibilities settings) whereas Data Vis I find a bit more opaque, especially when you have more than one applied. It's a shame Saved View settings can't be carried over to VPs somehow (I believe this has been requested + I think I've seen scripts for doing it...)

 

The other question to ask is how the Records are attached to the objects in the first place. You don't really want to be going around attaching them manually after the fact. Data mapping could be set up in the Data Manager to make it so the 'Phase' record is attached to every object inserted in the various Door, Window, Wall, Slab, Roof, etc classes. The record could have 'Existing' as the default + then it would just be a matter of going around changing the to-be-removed objects to 'Demo'. But newly drawn objects would also be 'Existing' by default too + they would also need changing to 'New' manually which seems a bit of a faff. One of the advantages of doing it with classes is that you can set the insertion class for objects in their style settings + for me at least, all my new Walls/Slabs/etc are always a different construction to the existing so I have separate styles for them anyway, meaning those objects are be set up to go into 'proposed' classes automatically.

 

I personally keep all the existing + proposed geometry on the same layers. I don't have separate 'new' + 'existing' layers.

 

Anyway, lots of ideas for @Ramon PG to try out! For me, the main reason for designating objects existing, demolished or proposed is for visibility purposes: so I can easily produce existing + proposed drawings from the same model. I occasionally want to produce demolition drawings where I'm using attribute overrides to highlight the objects being removed but I don't do this often, and this can be just as easily done using classes as it can using Data Vis. In terms of reporting I can't see any difference whether the objects are designated existing/demolished/proposed by class or by record field. You just need a way of filtering the objects VW searches for which both options do equally well. So for me I'm not sure that either method has the upper hand but I'm sure there must be circumstances where that's not the case.

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AutoCAD has “layer states”, which are like saved views in Vectorworks, but applicable to viewports on sheet layers, something Vectorworks should have for class/design layer manipulation, but perhaps superseded by data vis now…

 

This variable graphic control and visibility of classes and layers is kind of a big deal within architecture.  A lot of people’s time wasted on drawing coordination and errors has to do with omission/inclusion of information that should be automated and reliable.  Computers have been around for long enough that this crap should be well resolved by now.

 

I advocate for solutions which do not require programming or scripting so they are accessible to the average user and do not break with future releases (hey Marionette, I’m talking to you).  I think data vis is the best solution today, but that may change.  It’s like the whole scanning with lidar vs photogrammetry debate, best practices are evolving constantly.  What wins today may be obsolete tomorrow.

 

That being said, it seems everything VWX is moving towards data and style based control.  Might as well jump on the bandwagon and help the programmers make the controls we need easier to use.  Everything today seems to take a little too much effort on the user’s part in regards to this topic.

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55 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

AutoCAD has “layer states”, which are like saved views in Vectorworks, but applicable to viewports on sheet layers, something Vectorworks should have for class/design layer manipulation,

 

That sounds good!

 

55 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

but perhaps superseded by data vis now…

 

Data Vis is brilliant + should be used as much as poss but not sure it needs to replace class overrides + especially not class visibility???

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13 hours ago, jeff prince said:

 

It has some really good ideas in it for these types of workflows.

Attached is a quickie example I just made up to illustrate the point.

 

What I like about it is the data visualization can essentially act as a script for controlling your viewports.  With a good classing, design layer, and data record strategy you can make complicated drawing sets a bit easier to manage and get consistent output.

814537441_EDNdatavis.vwx 5.74 MB · 1 download

 

Seems the file is a 2023? I can't open it.

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21 hours ago, Tom W. said:

One of the doors the insertion class is set to be By Style:

51450642_Screenshot2023-05-03at15_53_55.thumb.png.a5aebcbfc4d470f1691e0997660c463d.png

 

The other is set to be By Instance:

1803405665_Screenshot2023-05-03at15_55_02.thumb.png.5b037d713cc6ebf1b6148abae5b215b6.png

 

I would have them all By Instance + 'Door-Existing' the default as you have it, then just manually change the class to 'Door-Demo' for those doors you'll be getting rid of. I mean draw everything up as 'Existing' initially (because that's what it is) then go round reassigning the objects (doors, walls, windows, etc) to demo classes once you decide what you're getting rid of.

 

My new doors I tend to assign to 'Door-Proposed' by style because they are different to any existing doors so they can be their own standalone style. And logically, why would you replace an existing door with a new door which is identical? Well if it was damaged perhaps, in which case you could use the same style + change the class by instance. It's up to you.

 

Thanks, I could swear I checked on that, but obviously did not established a consistent standard bc I overlooked that Plug-in Object Style Options..." is not part of the Edit menu. Now it the doors seems to work as I want.

 

 

In that line... how do you deal with walls? Seems there is no way of avoiding having three styles for each wall: Existing, Demo and New? So GB, CMU, Concrete, etc. need three styles. Or not...?

 

 

image.png.7bcd3f70f9b63d9663b1ba18037d6107.png

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