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Ken

Y-Intersections for walls

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Y-intersections for walls still need lots of improvement! Please don't take this lightly, NNA! This area of weakness has cursed Minicad and Vectorworks for the longest time. Y and complex T intersections are still very very disappointing. I've been using MC/VW for many years now, and I've brought this up at every discussion forum available. Is it such a huge undertaking? Please don't tell me it's not considered a weakness.

walljoin.gif

[This message has been edited by Archken (edited 10-15-2000).]

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With no reply from NNA on this issue, I presume it's not a priority for Nemetschek (Diehl Graphsoft engineers)?

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Kenneth

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I must come back to this issue:

This is the no 1 wish item. Please fix this before doing anything else. We all know vectorworks is superior, but the other CAD folks will laugh at us until basic wall joins (and corner windows) are possible.

I stopped recommending VW because of this. Just now I have the opportunity to recommend something to our 40-seat senior partnership.

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Well, this is a curious thread. It is disapointing to not see a forthright response from NNA.

I tried autocad for a little bit. I went with VW 8.5.1 instead... and I agree, the wall join behavior is really twinky. I'm thrilled to see that I'm not the only one to feel this way. Perhaps more users will gather to voice their dismay and NNA will come forward with a solution.

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Thomas Ames

trsystems@wir.net

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I'm beginning to think that, perhaps we are in the minority. Is it possible that 99.99% of VW or VWA users don't have to deal with Y-Intersection walls? If so, these folks are truly blessed and don't know the aggravation that they are spared.

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I have to agree most strongly that the current wall join is very week in complex situations. NNA has apparantly Given up on the Y Join tool as it isn't even in the Workspace editor as far as I can see.

I understand that the column command was created to alleviate this problem however while it works well for columns and Pipe chases or even intersecting different thickness walls it is too cumbersome for more typical join situations (Y or otherwise), since it is not easily reshapeable without editing group.

I also would like to know why sections of wall disappear when joined to columns if they are touching the column. Surely this is not a "feature".

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Bernard J. Doyle RA

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I have to agree most strongly that the current wall join is very week in complex situations. NNA has apparantly Given up on the Y Join tool as it isn't even in the Workspace editor as far as I can see.

I understand that the column command was created to alleviate this problem however while it works well for columns and Pipe chases or even intersecting different thickness walls it is too cumbersome for more typical join situations (Y or otherwise), since it is not easily reshapeable without editing group.

I also would like to know why sections of wall disappear when joined to columns if they are touching the column. Surely this is not a "feature".

------------------

Bernard J. Doyle RA

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I have to agree most strongly that the current wall join is very week in complex situations. NNA has apparantly Given up on the Y Join tool as it isn't even in the Workspace editor as far as I can see.

I understand that the column command was created to alleviate this problem however while it works well for columns and Pipe chases or even intersecting different thickness walls it is too cumbersome for more typical join situations (Y or otherwise), since it is not easily reshapeable without editing group.

I also would like to know why sections of wall disappear when joined to columns if they are touching the column. Surely this is not a "feature".

------------------

Bernard J. Doyle RA

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quote:

Originally posted by Archken:

Y-intersections for walls still need lots of improvement! Please don't take this lightly, NNA! This area of weakness has cursed Minicad and Vectorworks for the longest time. Y and complex T intersections are still very very disappointing. I've been using MC/VW for many years now, and I've brought this up at every discussion forum available. Is it such a huge undertaking? Please don't tell me it's not considered a weakness.

walljoin.gif

[This message has been edited by Archken (edited 10-15-2000).]

This problem esisted in Architectural Desktop (Autodesk). They have addressed the issue by giving the user control over the cleanup parameters for individual walls. When these multiple walls meet within a critical radius in VW Arch the program doesn't seem to be able to resolve the interaction. We need a similar feature to deal with these situations.

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i have to strongly agree with all of the above posts. i brought the up to mr. andersen last year at the aia convention, and the response that i got was to cover over the undesirable elements with patches! that is ok in theory only until you need to edit the area, then forget about. this should be a top priority for NNA.

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There is a section in the VW Arch Manualthat deals with this situation. Pages 4-31 thru 4-34 deal with "Special Wall Joins". The methods described do result in the desired display, however the third wall is not actually joined to the other two. There is no need for "patches" in the examples shown.

The ability to truly join more than two walls would be preferrable.

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regarding the previous post in this topic...if you look closely at the above examples, you will see that even if you do use the VW Architect methods for joining walls, they are not possible without using 'patches'. i use the methods outlined in the VW Architect manual regularly, but they do not accommodate the specific examples above.

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d. s h a f f e r

a r c h i t e c t

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Just to throw my two cents in, I agree that the wall joining abilities of VectorWorks could be improved, but all of the examples shown except the one on the far left can be accomplished without the use of any patches at all. It takes some trimming and manipulation of the stacking order of the wall segments, but the following examples have no patches whatsoever:

WallJoin.gif

I admit, my left example is not a true join, but we find it close enough for our work.

Regards,

Peter Thayer, Architect

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Very true indeed. Using the third wall's opacity works in many situations.

However, there are still limitations: Nudging the opaque wall slightly to cover a seam may throw off previously inserted symbols; some Y-intersections are especially time-consuming at best; fragmented conditions still require a tiny line segment.

And besides being more work, it's also limited to non-DXF transfers (for those unfortunate among us with Autocad clients). They properly require point by point joins and no itty bitty overhanging ends, which look sloppy.

I hate to point out these problems, but I only hope for a *thorough* solution.

walljoin2.gif

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Kenneth

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Kenneth,

Yes, I agree, all of my joins require the opacity of the wall to be solid, and this is a problem if you are going to export DWG.

But inside VectorWorks, I can help you with the first image in your last posting:

WallJ2.gif

I'm afraid the other two are impossible without "bandaids".

The problem with the wall tool seems to be that when walls are joined, the joint of each piece has to be a straight line from one side of the wall to the other. There is only so much you can do with that type of joint.

The tool would have to be modified to allow compound shape cuts through the wall such as a "V" cut or an "A" cut, then you could get compound joins without overlaps or breaks.

Regards,

Peter Thayer

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Thanks, Peter. That sequence of joining and trimming works well for that type of joint!

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Kenneth

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Some more common and simple Y-joins that I'm struggling with (help!):

cantjoin.gif

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Kenneth

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The other problem with wall joining is having to remember if they have already been joined! If they are and the wall join tool is used AGAIN on them, they become irritated and show a seam at their joints (to protest your duplicate effort). Geez! I wish walls already joined would simply stay UNCHANGED in their JOINED CONDITION if the wall join tool is used again on them.

Currently I have to use Wall Heal globally, or in the whole area, or at each questionable and unquestionable joint to make sure that walls are being joined ONLY ONCE. Silly quirk. It makes for a lot of unnecessary work.

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Kenneth

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Hi Archken, I would just like to let you know that we are aware of these issues and valid points have been made and will be looked into. In the meantime, we had a section of our Vectorworks Architect manual describe many different ways to make some of the Wall Joins mentioned in this post. I will work on getting this downloadable from our website shortly. For now you can simply email tech@nemetschek.net for a .pdf version of this section in order to give you some ideas or workarounds. I hope it helps.

Mike S.

NNA

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Hello MikeS! Thank you for finally replying. I'm sure you have been very busy at work.

As you know, VW 9 is now available, while the bundled VA 9 + VW 9 is back ordered, due at the end of this month. I presume that VA 9 will include the VA manual that you mention has the wall join solutions.

I have indeed ordered (and am patiently waiting for) the back-ordered VA9+VW9. My purchase was inspired by the purported new LL-to-ACblock feature. Hopefully the included manual will provide solutions for these *specific* wall joining problems. If not, I will definitely continue to post them here -- with the clarity of graphics.

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Kenneth

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Unfortunately, I cancelled my entire upgrade order for VW+VA+RW (shame on me). It was due to one big project that became finished without needing a particular new feature in VW9.

This means I'll have to take word from others that wall join solutions are included in the new package? Anybody?

[the broken email notification in these forums now seems entirely MISSING! What a solution! Way to go!]

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