Is there a database of standard material properties?

[Tom W.]

14 minutes ago, line-weight said:

I am realising that if I want to control textures primarily via "Materials" rather than classes, assigning them is rather more laborious.

 

If I want to draw a simple object and then control its texture by class, the routine is:

1. Draw the object

2. Go to the OIP, click once to expand the "class" dropdown which opens immediately

3. Click on the class I want.

 

It seems that if I want to do the same using Materials, I have to:

1. Draw the object

2. Go to the OIP and tick the "use material" box

3. Click on the newly appeared "materials" dropdown

4. Wait for a short delay while a resource browser-like dialogue opens

5. Click on the material I want

6. Click "select".

 

I am yet to find out whether this becomes annoying when I am drawing a lot of new objects.

 

Hopefully you will see more benefit when using them with Components

[E|FA]

6 hours ago, line-weight said:

I am realising that if I want to control textures primarily via "Materials" rather than classes, assigning them is rather more laborious.

 

If I want to draw a simple object and then control its texture by class, the routine is:

1. Draw the object

2. Go to the OIP, click once to expand the "class" dropdown which opens immediately

3. Click on the class I want.

 

It seems that if I want to do the same using Materials, I have to:

1. Draw the object

2. Go to the OIP and tick the "use material" box

3. Click on the newly appeared "materials" dropdown

4. Wait for a short delay while a resource browser-like dialogue opens

5. Click on the material I want

6. Click "select".

 

@Tom W. In your opinion would adding another Navigation palette for Materials to match Classes, DL, SL, Saved Views, etc resolve this workflow problem?  In conjunction with this, you would need an option to keep "use material" on by default in the OIP, and add an Unassigned Material, similar to the None Class.  I haven't worked with Materials yet and am wondering if this would be a useful Wishlist item.

[Tom W.]

8 hours ago, E|FA said:

@Tom W. In your opinion would adding another Navigation palette for Materials to match Classes, DL, SL, Saved Views, etc resolve this workflow problem?  In conjunction with this, you would need an option to keep "use material" on by default in the OIP, and add an Unassigned Material, similar to the None Class.  I haven't worked with Materials yet and am wondering if this would be a useful Wishlist item.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. A new tab listing all the Materials in the file? Materials are Resources so you can already see them listed in the Resource Manager. They are applied to objects, like other Resources, they aren't part of the file organisation. A single object - a Wall for example - might have as many as 14-15 Materials assigned to it. Most people I think are using Materials primarily in relation to Roofs, Walls, Slabs, Hardscapes, Landscape Areas, etc where the assignment is bound up in the style (+ makes creating the style far easier + more efficient than the previous workflow) + so happens automatically at the object level.

 

It is perfectly feasible to combine Materials + class-based attribute assignment in the same file. It doesn't have to be all of one or the other. 

[zoomer]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

It is perfectly feasible to combine Materials + class-based attribute assignment in the same file.

 

You can.

 

But when I read this, I immediately think about always wishing for being able to assign Materials to Classes. As I usually, beside "Container" Classes for PIO sorting, mostly "Material" purposed Classes anyway.

(For PIO Components and custom Geometries)

 

And when I read the Thread Title, I immediately think about always wishing for a more complete list of offered Building Materials. And, if there is any Database to help us create missing new Materials - I think if VW has such a database, it could be much easier for VW to create and offer these Materials as thy may do it in an automated/batch way.
If needed, just filling the physical, Energos and BIM data and the user choose and assign RW Materials, if that helps.

[Tom W.]

1 minute ago, zoomer said:

I immediately think about always wishing for being able to assign Materials to Classes

 

But then you'd lose one of the benefits of Materials which is to separate visibility + attributes...? i.e. you can have more general 'Wall-Cladding', 'Wall-Structure', 'Wall-Internal Finish', etc classes just for controlling visibility or for reporting (organisational) purposes.

 

8 minutes ago, zoomer said:

And when I read the Thread Title, I immediately think about always wishing for a more complete list of offered Building Materials. And, if there is any Database to help us create missing new Materials - I think if VW has such a database, it could be much easier for VW to create and offer these Materials as thy may do it in an automated/batch way.
If needed, just filling the physical, Energos and BIM data and the user choose and assign RW Materials, if that helps.

 

I guess it all depends how you are using Materials. Mine are set up to represent actual products + derive their data from the manufacturer's specs for those products + cost/supplier info which is local to me. I don't think I could expect VW to provide that info to me.

 

VW does supply quite a few pre-made Materials in the Libraries which come with a variety of physical data. Plus there is a Lookup... function for Lambda when creating your own Materials. It would be useful if there were similar Lookup... functions for other parameters like Density + Embodied Carbon however.

[zoomer]

41 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

But then you'd lose one of the benefits of Materials which is to separate visibility + attributes...?

 

Yes, maybe.

But I see it as an option. Like it is not needed to apply a RW Texture to Classes or to set them to override Attributes of objects at all, if you don't need.

 

And once Materials are assigned to a Class, Class overwriting in VPs would allow to change the Material.

E.G. create and overwrite by some not so real "misused" Materials like Demolition, Existing, ....

 

 

41 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Mine are set up to represent actual products + derive their data from the manufacturer's specs for those products

 

Absolutely.

But in my case there aren't a lot of Materials offered I need to build 80% of Materials completely by myself.

Costs may be local but other data like physical data, naming, ... should work globally. It would be much easier to start more customized Materials from a existing solid base Material.

Like when VW would offer a Marble Material, I could add it being a Carrara or a Travertin and add a price or fina adjust its weight and such. Maybe Editor could mark flexible data and offer Tooltips like IOR from 1.38-1.42, Density from 2.48-2.53 t/sqm ....

Edited November 26, 2024 by zoomer

[line-weight]

2 hours ago, zoomer said:

And once Materials are assigned to a Class, Class overwriting in VPs would allow to change the Material.

Hrm... this makes me realise another potential limitation of using Materials.

 

Because at the moment I do quite often use class over-rides on VPs for various purposes.

 

For example maybe I am presenting a number of options for a timber finish. I have a "material class" that represents Oak but I want to give an idea of what things might look like with a paler or darker type of timber.  In this case I can duplicate the viewport and in the duplicates, simply over-ride the texture applied to that Oak class with some alternative ones. If the material shows up in a number of places - say, structural members but also some manually modelled stairs, then the texture gets replaced in all of these places.

 

I don't think I would be able to do the same using Materials. But could I achieve the same result using data vis instead of class over-rides? Can I tell data vis to texture anything using Material A, with the textures used by Material B?

 

Another example is where I want to control the fill type in a section viewport. Material class X is set up with a solid colour fill attribute, and this is the fill that's applied to any objects using that material class, when they are cut in a section viewport. But I have other section viewports where I want that fill to be a hatch instead, and I can do this by over-riding the fill attribute for selected material classes.

 

Again, I'd have to think through how I'd achieve this with Materials - would it be possible via data vis?

 

[Tom W.]

Yes Data Vis is how you override textures/fills in VPs which have been assigned by Material.