As-Built Conditions While Using Stories?

[girwin]

I'm trying to transition to stories and was wondering if anyone has best practices for including both as-built and proposed walls, etc., in a single VW file. Previously, I'd just have "existing" floor & wall layers and "proposed" floor & wall layers in the same VW file and could reference whatever I needed from sheet layers. Not quite so clear how to do this with a model organized by stories. Thoughts?

[Christiaan]

You could still put these things on separate layers if you like; the Stories feature doesn't preclude you from this workflow. But another way is to organise these things by Class. Put existing, proposed and as built walls all on the same layer for each floor level, but then each of would have a different Class. e.g. Walls-Existing, Walls-Proposed, Walls-As Built

[Tom W.]

1 hour ago, Christiaan said:

But another way is to organise these things by Class.

 

This is what I do. I have '-Existing', '-Demolished' + '-Proposed' classes for everything.

[shorter]

Use both layers and classes. 
 

[girwin]

Thanks! It seems like the only way to include the existing and proposed within the stories format is to use classes, since the software doesn't seem to allow more than one layer per story level at the same elevation, nor more than one story with the same elevation. Am I missing something?

[Kevin K]

Yeah…I am not a huge fan of stories, and as a very long time VW user…I have gotten by just fine without using them. I realize many here do use them, but while occasionally assisting other VW users here on the forum, their workflows, using stories were horrifically bloated with all the story data. 
So….you may want to approach things a bit differently and not add the high maintenance paradigm of using stories.

The other suggestions that were proffered above by other users are spot on 🙂

And yes, in your case would probably be good to keep everything in one file.

Just my opinion…

[Kevin K]

Let me qualify somewhat my previous comments…stories may have their place if you are working on a fifty story building.  But, for a two or three story structure, I don’t see the need.

[E|FA]

A whole other way of dealing with existing/proposed/demolished is to use Records and Data Visualization, which I had looked at (but never got fully set up) via the VWU course MODEL SETUP FOR RENOVATION PROJECTS

 

 

[Jeff Prince]

3 hours ago, E|FA said:

A whole other way of dealing with existing/proposed/demolished is to use Records and Data Visualization, which I had looked at (but never got fully set up) via the VWU course MODEL SETUP FOR RENOVATION PROJECTS

 

 

this is what all the cool kids do.  Classes and design layers are dead for this workflow.

[Tom W.]

54 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

Classes... are dead for this workflow.

 

In what way?

 

I'm all for using Records + Data Vis generally but if all you want to do is make demolished objects invisible + proposed objects visible in order to switch between as-existing + as-proposed views I would suggest using classes is the easier + quicker method.

[Jeff Prince]

23 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

In what way?

Collaborating with non-vectorworks software for one.  It’s easier to add data to things than to come up with easy to use design layers export/import schemes.

[Kevin K]

Tom….I guess you and I are just not cool…..:-)

[Jonathan Pickup]

On 3/18/2023 at 9:43 PM, Tom W. said:

 

This is what I do. I have '-Existing', '-Demolished' + '-Proposed' classes for everything.

me too...

[Jonathan Pickup]

Using records and visualisation would be a good way to set up a renovation project, but it is an extra complexity and the users would have to be very comfortable with this technique rather than using classes. 

 

But you still need classes to control visibility. And the data visualisation isn't perfect because it doesn't apply to every component to my wall style.

[Tom W.]

6 minutes ago, Jonathan Pickup said:

But you still need classes to control visibility.

 

You can use Data Vis to make objects invisible by setting the attributes to none but if that's all you are using the data for (to control visibility) seems a bit of a long-winded method + easier to use classes. Unless you need the data for other reasons of course (reporting, tagging)... I don't collaborate with non-VW software so can't comment on that aspect.

[Jonathan Pickup]

Just now, Tom W. said:

 

You can use Data Vis to make objects invisible by setting the attributes to none but if that's all you are using the data for (to control visibility) seems a bit of a long-winded method + easier to use classes. Unless you need the data for other reasons of course (reporting, tagging)... I don't collaborate with non-VW software so can't comment on that aspect.

I tried that, all my windows and doors were still visible, so you have to add the data to those as well, and you have to watch out for the stacking order...

I find classes easier. 

 

[Christiaan]

11 hours ago, girwin said:

Thanks! It seems like the only way to include the existing and proposed within the stories format is to use classes, since the software doesn't seem to allow more than one layer per story level at the same elevation, nor more than one story with the same elevation. Am I missing something?

It's true that you can't have more than one layer per Story Level (i.e. Level Type), but you can have multiple layers per Story (and with the same Elevation). You just need to create additional Level Types. So you could have Level Types for FFL-EXISTING, FFL-DEMOLISHED, FFL-PROPOSED, FFL-ASBUILT, all with an elevation of 0.

 

I've actually done this a lot in the past, to split up main shell of the building vs internal layouts onto different layers. I stopped doing that on my last project because there was a Internal Elevation bug that messed up Internal Elevations at creation. But that might be fixed now.

 

As an aside, I don't understand why we can't have more than one layer for each Story Level. If anybody at VW reading this knows why I would welcome a explanation.

[Christiaan]

8 hours ago, Kevin K said:

Let me qualify somewhat my previous comments…stories may have their place if you are working on a fifty story building.  But, for a two or three story structure, I don’t see the need.

One reason is that you then work with two different workflows. A simple 2-3 storey structure is an opportunity to practice using Stories.

 

I wouldn't work without Levels now. They're a great way to make changes, maintain consistency, and label levels on sections and details. It's a quality control feature.

[Kevin K]

7 hours ago, jeff prince said:

this is what all the cool kids do.  Classes and design layers are dead for this workflow.

Not sure if all of you have received the sad news….there will be a funeral on Thursday…..for classes and layers….hope you all can attend….

[rDesign]

6 hours ago, Christiaan said:

I wouldn't work without Levels now. They're a great way to make changes, maintain consistency, and label levels on sections and details. It's a quality control feature.

Me too. Especially with the new Elevation benchmarks, which can automatically update in all of your SLVPs if you change the height of their referenced Level.

[Ramon PG]

8 hours ago, Jonathan Pickup said:

me too...

I add "Demo" clases. My "Existing" walls' styles will have a different hatch in 2D view. Doors and Window do have an "Existing" class and show it in the Door/Window Schedule. I don mess with the rest as most symbols will have their classes set up.

 

This is an interesting read:

https://university.vectorworks.net/mod/scorm/player.php?a=18&currentorg=articulate_rise&scoid=36

 

 

[girwin]

Still grappling with this. Years ago, I felt like using classes to control 'Existing,' 'New,' and 'Demolished," was overly difficult, requiring, for instance, walls to be segmented so that portions of them could classed differently, difficulty deleting door and window objects and leaving no trace of them, etc.

I'm feeling good about using extra Design Layers for this, but it does require a complete set of duplicates of each slab level of the building for "Proposed" and "Existing" layers to get the stair objects to behave well graphically (i.e. a dashed graphic on lower floor and solid above, etc.) In my case, for example, I have a garage on the lowest level, and two levels above. Even though the garage level isn't being modified, I need a duplicate layer, '0-Slab Proposed' in addition '0-Slab' so I can set the upper Layer of the stair object to '1-Slab Proposed' vs. '1-Slab', etc.