Hidden Line muddle?

[Benson Shaw]

This started in another thread about representing decorative wrought iron.  The modeling and texture creation is fun!

 

 But the hidden line render causes lines that connect edges which should have no connection.  Strangely, the anomaly is much reduced if the textured object is NURBS surface or NURBS shell (objects on right end of the line).  The NURBS surface and subsequent shell were created from the extrude (Extract tool).

Some things I tried:

• Change direction of the 2d polys used to clip holes in the original 2d outline shape in the extrudes.  Mirrored about axis, all same direction, mixed, etc. no improvement.
• HL smoothing angle.  No significant changes at 0°, 0.1°, 1°, 45°, 90°
• Remove the textures.
• Remove the stacked objects.

 

Screenshots show Shaded, HL with 0° smoothing.

File is about 50mb or 40mb zipped, but forum accepted so here if anyone wants to take a look.

 

 

Is this just a limit of the HL rendering of narrow volumes?  or is there some correction to be found in modeling or rendering technique?

 

-B

 

 

 

 

Rail2.vwx.zip

Edited February 3, 2023 by Benson Shaw
Reference

[Benson Shaw]

Suggestions? Lost Cause?

 

thx

 

-B

 

[Kevin McAllister]

7 hours ago, Benson Shaw said:

Suggestions? Lost Cause?

 

thx

 

-B

 

Do they show up in sheet layer viewports? I've seen stuff like you're showing in some of my models. They tend to be ok in sheet layer viewports rendered in hidden line.

 

Kevin

 

[AlanW]

@Benson ShawHi opened in 2023 and was ok immediately.

Alan

[Kevin McAllister]

17 minutes ago, AlanW said:

@Benson ShawHi opened in 2023 and was ok immediately.

Alan

 

Allan it doesn't look like you're rendering it in hidden line, which is were the anomalies show up.

Benson, I only get one of the two anomalies on my system.

 

Kevin

[Benson Shaw]

@Kevin McAllister  Thanks, but no difference in the VP.  I tried range of smoothing.

 

@AlanW  Interesting! Thanks for testing.  I saw same at start of HL render, which is a sort of preview while the HL render bumbles along.  But when the render completes (about 30 to 60 seconds on my rig), the zig zags return.

 

I edited the extrude to see if any problems there.  Only thing I found was an extra poly at central circular medallion area.  Deleting that made no difference in the HL.

 

In the Edit Poly pane, I also deleted all the left hand clipping polys and replaced by mirroring the right hand ones.  No change in the HL.

 

Also tried to remake from that revised poly in a new blank file.  No improvement in the HL.

 

So, I'm still stumped.

-B

 

 

[AlanW]

@Kevin McAllister

Did a hidden line render in design layer and sheet layer and still no issues.

VW23 & PC 

1137670958_Rail2Copy1.vwx

[Tom W.]

I get the lines in all four places the same as you @Benson Shaw:

 

 

And when I open @AlanW's file + update the VP the lines appear there too (in all four places).

[zoomer]

Alan has a PC and you have Macs !?

[Tom W.]

11 minutes ago, zoomer said:

Alan has a PC and you have Macs !?

 

I did wonder... But then @Kevin McAllister has Mac but is only experiencing some of the anomalies, not all of them...

[zoomer]

OK, I did it too on my M1 Mini.

 

Alan's File :

 

 

SLVP

 

 

 

DL

 

 

Bensons File :

 

 

DL

[Kevin McAllister]

3 hours ago, zoomer said:

OK, I did it too on my M1 Mini.

 

 

Seems like something to bug submit to find out why it's happening.

KM

[Benson Shaw]

Just to verify - File from @AlanW, when I open it, displays same HL problems in same locations as my original file and at least similar to what all you other responders found. But Alan is only running Windows OS.  Mac/Window difference?  Thanks everyone for testing and commenting!

 

I will put together a bug report. Could be Win/Mac or my original geometry, or ???.  We should look for it in other files with HL scenes.

 

Another comment - That HL temporary preview, displays the scene as expected (no anomalies) while the HL render proceeds.  I think it is sort of HL lite or Wire Frame Pro so that one can interrupt the render to make edits to view or geometry without waiting for render to complete.  then start the render again.  I wonder how that preview is different from the completed render, and if it could be a future update feature as additional render mode.

 

-B

[zoomer]

9 hours ago, Benson Shaw said:

That HL temporary preview, displays the scene as expected (no anomalies)

 

For me too.

 

As I see the simple Extrudes work fine.

While the NURBS Face thing looks pretty complex to me.

 

Als I do not know which of VW 3D Modeling offers will finally

bring the best texture mapping result. I see they look quite

different.

 

[Benson Shaw]

7 hours ago, zoomer said:

As I see the simple Extrudes work fine.

While the NURBS Face thing looks pretty complex to me.

Not sure what you mean.  In my views the NURBS objects have fewer lines out of place in HL, seem about same in

HL preview and Shaded.

 

17 hours ago, Benson Shaw said:

But Alan is only running Windows OS.

Wasn't intended as dismissive.  Meant to say he is the only responder running Windows.

-B

[line-weight]

Here's what I get on my mac mini

 

[line-weight]

Hrm... I posted the screenshot above, went away and had my dinner and stuff, then came back to the computer to find it looking like this... so it had maybe not entirely finished doing its render.

 

[Andy Broomell]

I

1 hour ago, line-weight said:

Here's what I get on my mac mini

 

42 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Hrm... I posted the screenshot above, went away and had my dinner and stuff, then came back to the computer to find it looking like this... so it had maybe not entirely finished doing its render.

 

Indeed, the first screenshot looks like a raster-based "preview" that is shown while the actual vector-based hidden line render is being calculated.

[line-weight]

1 hour ago, Andy Broomell said:

Indeed, the first screenshot looks like a raster-based "preview" that is shown while the actual vector-based hidden line render is being calculated.

 

I never use hidden line in design layers so am unfamiliar with how it works.... it seems the teapot is there for a while, then disappears, but it's not actually finished rendering yet, and there is then a green "Stopping Render" message in the bottom bar...and then at some point that eventually disappears and it's finished.