jolo2881 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 I am looking to create wrought iron railings on a balcony as per the attached. Is there somewhere to import ready-made symbols to create something similar? Thanks Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 If you can find/generate a decent image of the wrought ironwork one option would be to create a texture with transparency + use the Wall tool. Or just apply the texture to a 3D solid. Rather than attempting to model it in 3D. See this thread for more info: Or as suggested in one of the posts, draw the railing in 2D then create texture from it... Quote Link to comment
jolo2881 Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 Thanks Tom. Would either of these methods create transparency through the gaps of the railings in the way that the Railing/Fence tool does? I wondered if there are any libraries out there to download new symbols? I am not a Service Select member any more unfortunately - do more ornate symbols exist in the premium libraries? Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 26 minutes ago, jolo2881 said: Would either of these methods create transparency through the gaps of the railings Yes both would. You'd be creating a texture that has transparency. The rebar in Jeff's image below is I believe drawn 2D geometry converted into a texture with transparency then applied to 3D solid panels placed in between the posts/rails: And here is another example: 49 minutes ago, jolo2881 said: I wondered if there are any libraries out there to download new symbols? I am not a Service Select member any more unfortunately - do more ornate symbols exist in the premium libraries? I couldn't see anything in the VW libraries but there are several wrought iron railings on 3D Warehouse you could check out. Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Go to turbosquid.com and in the search box type in ‘wrought iron fence. You will need to get an .OBJ or 3ds formatted file which you can import into VW. This is the site I depend on to obtain 3d models of items you will never find in the VW libraries….with all due respect. Quote Link to comment
bcd Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Pick a suitable casting from eg: https://www.kingmetals.com/Catalog/Catalog.aspx?CatalogId=c39&CatalogDetailId=9&NSM=Y Extrude it a little bit and if you want fillet the edges. Create a symbol and place it in one of your chosen ways (Fence tool/ Duplicate along path, etc...) Quote Link to comment
jolo2881 Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 Thanks @Tom W. this may stretch my fairly limited VW expertise but it sounds like a great solution if I can work out the steps! I'll definitely give it a go. 1 hour ago, Kevin K said: Go to turbosquid.com and in the search box type in ‘wrought iron fence. You will need to get an .OBJ or 3ds formatted file which you can import into VW. This is the site I depend on to obtain 3d models of items you will never find in the VW libraries….with all due respect. Thanks @Kevin K for the suggestion - I think there may be one on turbosquid I could use if the above doesn't work out @bcd thanks - if creating my own symbol using a casting as you suggest, do I draw all the other elements too to create one section of railing, ie. posts, top rail, bottom rail? 1 Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 jolo, I went deep into the archives and found this from an older project of mine. It may not be exactly what you want, but maybe you can tweak it to your liking. It is a wrought iron detail I created, so perhaps take parts of it and tweak and duplicate any elements of it to suit your needs. I did an extrusion for the top rail so just do what you want with that. It is a 2022 file. Good news.....it is free. 🙂 -Kev 184688808_WroughtIronRailingv2022.vwx 1 Quote Link to comment
bcd Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, jolo2881 said: @bcd thanks - if creating my own symbol using a casting as you suggest, do I draw all the other elements too to create one section of railing, ie. posts, top rail, bottom rail? Yes, I would. Those are pretty straightforward EAP s and DAP s (duplicate along path) You can then select all and create AutoHybrid or a Hybrid symbol if you prefer to have a nice clean look in Top/Plan. Edited January 20, 2023 by bcd Quote Link to comment
jolo2881 Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 @Kevin K really kind, thank you so much! Quote Link to comment
jolo2881 Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 Thanks @bcd for responding - I'll try that too Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Kevin K said: Go to turbosquid.com and in the search box type in ‘wrought iron fence. You will need to get an .OBJ or 3ds formatted file which you can import into VW. This is the site I depend on to obtain 3d models of items you will never find in the VW libraries….with all due respect. Careful though that this does not give you a hugely over-detailed 3d mesh object that then bogs your file down massively. 1 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Lots of different options + will boil down to how accurately you want to replicate the railing in your photo (i.e. if you were seeking to represent an existing railing on site), how much detail you will ultimately see in your renderings, how large you're prepared your file size to get + how much time you're prepared to devote to the exercise. 2 Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 line-weight, yeah, that does happen...usually I will use the 'simplify mesh' tool to dumb it down a bit to reduce file size, but yes, the imported files tend to be on the larger size. For example, these files in Cinema 4d are just tiny in comparison. 1 Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 My standard warning for this type of thing is what is the end use of the part. You can certainly model something like this to the nearest thousandth if you are willing to spend the time. But is that a good use of the time? Do you really need that level of detail? If you are designing the rail, then maybe you do. But is the craftsman actually going to build it to your exact plan? With something like wrought iron that is hand crafted is that even possible? If you just need something representative, then think about what your output will be before getting too caught up in the details. Case 1: Output is a rendered image at 300 DPI. The total width of rendered image is 152 mm (6 inches). The total width of the elevation is 10 meters. So you have 10000 mm of width squeezed into 1800 pixels. So each pixel represents about 5mm. Any detail you model that is smaller will effectively be lost. I know that there is some subpixel rendering and other magic going on, but you are not going to see much smaller than 5 mm. Case 2: Same as case 1 except you are going to render the image at 900mm wide. You now are putting 10000mm into 10630 pixels. So in this case objects smaller than about 0.95 mm will be lost. You can apply similar logic to any size of objects and output as a way to think about the level of detail required in a drawing. My $0.02. HTH 1 Quote Link to comment
Elite Exhibits Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 jolo2881 I tend to find greater realism & simplicity with a masked Image - attached Peter Fence Rendered.pdf 2 Quote Link to comment
Benson Shaw Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Desired graphic product can drive this, but the design typically needs description for client and for construction in either graphic form or a fab sample, or both. Someone will have to do this work. Many crafters are highly qualified and motivated to drive such design work. Others, might not be willing to provide the effort. Time for some search may be required, or depend on established working relationships. In terms of rendering a concept/design, a masked texture is quick. Can be from a readymade image. but . . . A 3d or 2d drawing of even one section can be used to make the texture and help determine weights, fastener positions, physical properties, material lists and more ( textures can’t do that) . Depending on model detail, design options can be explored - cross section of various elements, twist count of the balusters, positions of and number of shoulders on the arrow points, diameter of scrolls, etc. Portions of the drawing can be adapted to describe conditions at stairs, inclines and curves. I’m suggesting there can be advantages to creating a model. Detail level may vary. -B 2 Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 There can certainly be advantages to making a model if you are doing the actual design. But if you are not going to generate linework fab drawings the level of detail needed in the model is still mostly dependent and the size and resolution of the output. I did a project one time where the person in charge decided that he wanted to model reality. To the extent that we modeled the wires hanging the pictures on the wall. Then he complained about how slow the renders were. So we turned off the classed with all the little things like the wires. Renders sped up considerably. And he never once realized that we didn't include those little invisible details in the renders. In face he bragged about how everything was included in the model and the renders. Cost him a lot of extra money and time to create things that didn't matter. 🤷♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment
jolo2881 Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 Thanks all for your insights and suggestions. I am still learning the ropes of 3D modelling in Vectorworks so, for me, all of these options are useful as it helps me understand the various workflows you can use to create any one thing. But, for this particular project, I only need an approximation of the railings. They form part of the architecture of a house but I am designing the garden, not the house, so they don't need to be exact. @Elite Exhibits thank you for the example - could you briefly outline the steps to create this? Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Am I right in thinking the various image based solutions aren't going to work if the target is to produce hidden-line vector drawings? 2 Quote Link to comment
Popular Post michaelk Posted January 23, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2023 I've been using this cheat for railings that are too complicated for the railing tool: 1. Create a railing with just the hand rail and whatever posts you need, if any. 2. Create a 3D symbol (there is also a way to do it as 2D, which can be helpful if you are still designing the railing) of one repetition of the pattern. 3. Draw a rectangle on the layer plane roughly where you want the railing pattern to go. 4. Insert the 3D symbol 5. Select both the rectangle and the symbol. Model > Create Surface Array… -----Set the Repetition Mode X to the Fixed Distance and make the distance be the width of the symbol. -----Set the Repetition Mode Y to be Number of Repetitions and make it be 1. -----Set the Edge Conditions to Trim -----UNcheck Display Base Surface If for some reason you don't see what you expect, or anything at all, change Edge Conditions to Overlap. That will tell you if you are off by 90º or on the wrong axis etc. 2093553910_RailingExample.vwx 571568339_RailingExample.mp4 5 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 6 hours ago, line-weight said: Am I right in thinking the various image based solutions aren't going to work if the target is to produce hidden-line vector drawings? Not if the texture is given a surface hatch Quote Link to comment
Andy Broomell Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 12 hours ago, Tom W. said: Not if the texture is given a surface hatch But that surface hatch will never match the detail/design of the texture. I think @line-weight points out a valid limitation of the texture approach. You'd only get a rectangular outline of the shape, not the individual components represented in the texture. That being said, I would still likely use the texture approach, then I'd render the viewport with a Shaded background render (to get the texture) and Hidden Line foreground (to get vector lines). This is what 95% of my elevations are set up as. 1 Quote Link to comment
Andy Broomell Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 If anyone is in a scenario where you're designing a handrail using prefab parts, such as from King's Metals, it can be easier to figure out the design & layout in 2D first before jumping into 3D. And in cases where you don't even need a 3D model, then this 2D geometry just becomes the drafting. The great thing is you'll have better control over attributes such as lineweights. Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, Andy Broomell said: But that surface hatch will never match the detail/design of the texture. I think @line-weight points out a valid limitation of the texture approach. You'd only get a rectangular outline of the shape, not the individual components represented in the texture. I think you're right. I was thinking you could probably create a hatch which approximated the appearance of the railings (in the same way hatches for roof, wall, etc materials do) but then realised that you wouldn't get the transparency you'd need so that pretty much rules it out as an idea! Quote Link to comment
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