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VW2023 is slicing my models in front of my eyes (shaded view)


line-weight

Question

See video. Sometimes I want to get right in close to something. In my example, I want to snap to the midpoint of an edge 1mm in length.

 

First I do it in VW2021.

 

Then I switch to VW2023 SP3 and try the same thing - but as soon as I get close to the geometry it starts getting sliced away in front of me. Carrying out the same operation is impossible.

 

Because I skipped VW2022 I don't know if this was introduced in VW2023 or in VW2022. But this is making it very difficult for me to do detailed editing or drawing in perspective shaded mode which is what I use 90% of the time.

 

Is there some setting I can change or is this a bug?

 

 

 

cube23.vwx

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See this old thread — which even though it is about OpenGL, it might be related to this issue happening in the VGM Shaded mode.
Hopefully since it looked like it worked correctly in 2021 it can be fixed.
Does restarting Vw solve the issue, at least temporarily?

 

 

Edited by rDesign
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Have you tried using the Snap Loupe (Z key in the default workspaces) instead of manually zooming in? It zooms just the area around the cursor so you can find snap points.

 

But On VW2023 SP3, I can zoom in about 1,000,000% without seeing anything like what you are showing. I don't know what is going on.

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19 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

But On VW2023 SP3, I can zoom in about 1,000,000% without seeing anything like what you are showing. I don't know what is going on.

 

Have you tried with my file posted above? I've found that there seem to be quite a few problems that only appear when either or both of these apply:

 

- The design layer scale is set to 1:1 (rather than the default 1:50)

- The model is viewed in perspective shaded view rather than orthogonal

 

Both of those are how I work - quite a few problems I find, people can't replicate but it turns out that they use neither of the above.

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23 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

Have you tried using the Snap Loupe (Z key in the default workspaces) instead of manually zooming in?

This sort of works but would be a very slow and inconvenient way for me to do stuff.

 

I note that if I've already zoomed in enough for the slicing to happen, activating the snap loupe doesn't show any geometry in the sliced zone.

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48 minutes ago, rDesign said:

See this old thread — which even though it is about OpenGL, it might be related to this issue happening in the VGM Shaded mode.

 

It seems that it happens (at least for me testing just now) in all modes - wireframe, hidden line, shaded, polygon.

But as per that old thread, it only happens in perspective, not orthogonal view.

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2 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

Snap Loupe (Z key in the default workspaces)

 

To be precise, it will be the "key" 2 keys to the right, from left SHIFT key 🙂

("Y" key on a QWERTZ keyboard)

 

I used that in the past extensively but had already forgotten ....

 

 

1 hour ago, line-weight said:

But as per that old thread, it only happens in perspective, not orthogonal view.

 

Good find.

And looks like the only solution .... ahm workaround ... for VW 2023.

I tried to play with every setting while in any perspective mode.

No chance.

 

Yes, not nice.

If it worked in earlier VW versions, it would be nice if this could be fixed.

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I would die if I had to use the default US Workspaces,

but I never changed any shortcut keys.

(As I am usually using many Apps and not able to remember different shortcuts for each

 and a visually thinking person, preferring to travel large cursor distances for a familiar

 Icon instead)

 

It was just a bit more difficult learning VW US if e.g

temporary Snapping deactivation is not ' key but "<" key (or "B" for XRAY mode and such).

I soon realized, VW's shortcuts aren't keyboard expressions - but just keyboard key positions.

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54 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

I understand.  

 

But for something with only a key to implement, the easiest way to explain is by what I know and by what "most" users have available to switch to to at least test. And this is the stock workspaces.

 

 

Of course,

I was just a kidding International minority refusing to use my localized VW 🙂

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I worked for/with a German company for a very long time (35 years). I am pretty good a reading the humor between the lines in non-native speakers. 😉

 

And in all that time my German never improve beyond the bare minimum needed to order in a restaurant.  🤦‍♂️

 

So I am always very impressed by how well all the non-native speakers do here. 👍

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Is anyone out there able to test it on 2023 SP2 or earlier?

 

Reason I ask is that SP3 fixed another long-running bug (that appeared in perspective/shaded view), one that has prevented me from starting to use 2023 until now. I'm wondering if that fix has caused this new problem, which is also liable to make it somewhat unusable for me.

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10 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

It may be a bug but I've seen something similar happen in C4D.

 

AFAIK in C4D this likely happened when your geometry was far from origin.

(And/or imported at wrong scale ?)

So that the canvas got too large and therefore the resolution went too course (?)

 

Basically how graphic issues in VW usually work.

 

But in this example, the geometry is neither off from center nor too big !?

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On 1/19/2023 at 11:12 PM, line-weight said:

Is anyone out there able to test it on 2023 SP2 or earlier?

 

Reason I ask is that SP3 fixed another long-running bug (that appeared in perspective/shaded view), one that has prevented me from starting to use 2023 until now. I'm wondering if that fix has caused this new problem, which is also liable to make it somewhat unusable for me.

 

An engineer posted a video of this 'object peeling' symptom to the bug report of the other issue you mention - the flickering surfaces seen when in Shaded mode and perspective view. This infers that this symptom is at least suspected to be related. I've confirmed that this happens in VW2023 SP2 on my Mac and VW 2023 SP3 on my Windows computer. 

For the uninitiated: This 'object peeling' effect is indeed also caused when one or more objects are too far away from the document's Internal Origin - which is distinct from the User Origin. 

 

EDIT: This behaviour directly correlates to the scale of the Design Layer. In Vectorworks 2021 SP5, with a Layer Scale of 1:1 'object peeling' doesn't occur until you are essentially 'inside' the object concerned but object peeling occurs when much, much further away from the object when the Layer Scale is 1:200. The behaviour is 'normal,' however the threshold for it to occur is lower in Vectorworks 2023. 

Edited by Jeremy Best
Amendments, updates and details added.
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Probably not related, but I  think this is true for current and previous versions . . . Old thread seems to allude to this, as well 

  1.  in orthogonal view, the zoom view maxes out at the interface of an object. The zoom virtual camera cannot penetrate from outside of a room, through a wall, thence into the interior of the room. Zoom does not penetrate any surfaces. 
     
  2. in perspective views, zooming can continue through walls and other objects to reveal drawing content on opposite side. 

That peeling effect may represent the zoom virtual camera encountering/penetrating the surface. Maybe the cursor box is sort of a bubble with leading surface somewhat ahead of the zoom “camera plane”???  The cursor bubble does not rescale with the layer scale, or rescales disproportionately. Surface conditions (line work, fill etc) existing in the small gap between front of bubble and camera plane are visible until the zoom plane fully contacts???

 

or?

 

-B

Edited by Benson Shaw
Research lab work
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@Benson Shaw When in orthogonal view, zooming simply enlarges the view, hence everything just gets bigger and bigger with no theoretical limit. This is simply due to the nature or orthogonal geometry where actual parallel lines are displayed in parallel. But when in perspective - where lines that are actually parallel converge on the screen - zooming actually 'moves' the viewer forwards/backwards. So, at some point the viewer will penetrate surface of any objects in the way. It does indeed seem that issue - as you assert - is the point at which the viewer penetrates the object. Based on chats I've had with the engineers they'll know why Vectorworks 2023 'penetrates' earlier than prior versions. I suspect the difficulty will be adjusting this without affecting the other 'flashing surfaces' issue. 

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