Selecting spaces in VW 2023

[EliM]

Hi there,

 

Does anyone know how to select a space object in VW 2023 without clicking on the boundary of the space? Often the boundary of my spaces are behind the boundaries of walls and so it is difficult to select a space by clicking on the boundary.

 

In VW 2022, you could click on the space tag and it would select the space object, but in 2023 do so only selects the data tag....

[Tom W.]

You're not alone see:

 

 

[zoomer]

15 minutes ago, EliM said:

In VW 2022, you could click on the space tag and it would select the space object,

 

That is what I would have expected.

 

But isn't that possibly fixed with VW 2023 SP3 now ?

[FBernardo]

1 hour ago, zoomer said:

 

That is what I would have expected.

 

But isn't that possibly fixed with VW 2023 SP3 now ?

 

No, because that is how it works now, apparently is working as intended... 

[EliM]

It is nice being able to move around the data tag so easily now. I just wish that you could, say, hold down ctrl when you click on the data tag to select the whole space object.

[FBernardo]

Hi all, 

The reply that i got from the engineering team from Vectorworks:

 

"this is working as designed. Since VW 2023 the label of Space is now a Data Tag object. So yes, when you click on the "label", you are selecting the Data Tag, and not the Space. The Space shape is then highlighted so you know where it is and can click to select it.

This change allows you to use as many label as you want for Space and to get rid of very old technologies that were used to create the Space label based on a symdef. And Data Tags are great objects with a lot of possibilities to display data coming from Space or even custom records attached to the Space object.

We also have added a "selection group" for the Space object. Very useful if the Space has no 2D Boundaries or if its attributes are transparent. The label was then the only way to select it in previous versions, now there is this "selection shape" to do it.

We will try to improve a bit more the Data Tag - Space integration in future release of Vectorworks, but it's a bit too early to describe this now..."

 

 

[Tom W.]

5 minutes ago, FBernardo said:

We also have added a "selection group" for the Space object.

 

Do you know what this is? I don't understand.

 

6 minutes ago, FBernardo said:

now there is this "selection shape" to do it.

 

Ditto.

 

Thanks!

[MarcelP102]

@FBernardoThanks for reaching out to the engineer. Can you ask him to make a movie? It seems we need to change our workflow. But if no one shows you how to use the tool it's a bit hard...

 

Why don't they make a more in depth movie when they introduce or change functionality? This would save so much trail and error time.

Edited January 12 by MarcelP102

[FBernardo]

19 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

 

Do you know what this is? I don't understand.

 

 

Ditto.

 

Thanks!

 

I did ask about this as i also didn't understood!

 

14 minutes ago, MarcelP102 said:

@FBernardoThanks for reaching out to the engineer. Can you ask him to make a movie? It seems we need to change our workflow. But if no one shows you how to use the tool it's a bit hard...

 

Why don't they make a more in depth movie when they introduce or change functionality? This would save so much trail and error time.

 

I did ask for that 🙂

[Tom W.]

13 minutes ago, FBernardo said:

34 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

 

Do you know what this is? I don't understand.

 

 

Ditto.

 

Thanks!

 

I did ask about this as i also didn't understood!

 

You can give the 2D Boundary 0% transparency + no Line + in this way make the Space invisible yet still be able to select it - and with Reshape Tool reshape it - but this is no different to VW2022...

[MarcelP102]

 - facepalm - 

 

You can click the in red highlighted shape of the space when selecting the tag... also when the lines and fill are set to none. Not sure what the 'selection group' is though.

[FBernardo]

@MarcelP102 @Tom W.

 

See the video attached

[EliM]

Thank you for the helpful discussion. I do understand that you can click on the boundary of the space object and thus edit it that way.

 

But, what I was trying to say in the original post is that the boundary of the space object is often at the face or midline of a wall, and sits behind the wall objects, so I actually don't have a good way to click on the boundary without clicking first on a wall, sending it back, then clicking on the space object, and then sending the space object back again when I'm done reshaping it.

 

So much more hassle then in VW 22 when I could double click on the data tag and reshape the space. VW could combine the best of both worlds by allowing you to ctrl-click on the data tag to select the space object and regular click on the data tag to select just the data tag, or something like that...

[FBernardo]

3 hours ago, EliM said:

Thank you for the helpful discussion. I do understand that you can click on the boundary of the space object and thus edit it that way.

 

But, what I was trying to say in the original post is that the boundary of the space object is often at the face or midline of a wall, and sits behind the wall objects, so I actually don't have a good way to click on the boundary without clicking first on a wall, sending it back, then clicking on the space object, and then sending the space object back again when I'm done reshaping it.

 

So much more hassle then in VW 22 when I could double click on the data tag and reshape the space. VW could combine the best of both worlds by allowing you to ctrl-click on the data tag to select the space object and regular click on the data tag to select just the data tag, or something like that...

 

Hi Elim, 

 

Are you putting the space tool object in the Design Layers or in the Sheet Layers ? As I use it is in the Sheet layers, I know you could and can use it in the design layers, but in the Design layers you can make it like bounded to the wall or to the area and when you move the wall the space object will move with it, I know this is not the best. 

 

I use it only on Sheet layers and it makes it easier to select but then again if we're to use it in the Design layers you are correct unless when you place it you straight away push it forward and then maybe you would be able to select it first instead of the wall. 

 

Another trick is if you hover your mouse pointer where the line is the mouse arrow will show an * while showing this if you press the key J and then select the "wall/line/ect' you should get a menu where all of the objects and you can pick one from that list and the selection will only select that object. (don't know if I made a good explanation on that, but let me know I will try and make a video showing.)

[EliM]

On 2/9/2023 at 11:51 AM, FBernardo said:

 

Hi Elim, 

 

Are you putting the space tool object in the Design Layers or in the Sheet Layers ? As I use it is in the Sheet layers, I know you could and can use it in the design layers, but in the Design layers you can make it like bounded to the wall or to the area and when you move the wall the space object will move with it, I know this is not the best. 

 

I use it only on Sheet layers and it makes it easier to select but then again if we're to use it in the Design layers you are correct unless when you place it you straight away push it forward and then maybe you would be able to select it first instead of the wall. 

 

Another trick is if you hover your mouse pointer where the line is the mouse arrow will show an * while showing this if you press the key J and then select the "wall/line/ect' you should get a menu where all of the objects and you can pick one from that list and the selection will only select that object. (don't know if I made a good explanation on that, but let me know I will try and make a video showing.)

 

Thanks FBernardo,

 

I use the spaces in the design layers--as I do most of my plan edits in the design layer, I'd rather not be navigating between my design and sheet layers when editing walls and spaces. As for autobounding spaces with walls--that is a method I should try more often but I'm not in the habit of it because there a lot of situations where it simply doesn't work (e.g. space abuts another space without a wall between). Perhaps time for me to be mindful about using the autobound when I can.

 

And thanks for introducing me to the coincident selection tool! Can't believe I didn't know it. I think that pretty much fixes my problem and makes selecting spaces for me (almost) as efficient as before.

[FBernardo]

31 minutes ago, EliM said:

 

Thanks FBernardo,

 

I use the spaces in the design layers--as I do most of my plan edits in the design layer, I'd rather not be navigating between my design and sheet layers when editing walls and spaces. As for autobounding spaces with walls--that is a method I should try more often but I'm not in the habit of it because there a lot of situations where it simply doesn't work (e.g. space abuts another space without a wall between). Perhaps time for me to be mindful about using the autobound when I can.

 

And thanks for introducing me to the coincident selection tool! Can't believe I didn't know it. I think that pretty much fixes my problem and makes selecting spaces for me (almost) as efficient as before.

 

I usually find it more practical to draw everything 2D in the Sheet layers and leave the 3D in the design layers, but some 2D are needed sometimes in the Design layers, depends on your workflow, I'm glad I could help!

 

[Tom W.]

54 minutes ago, FBernardo said:

I usually find it more practical to draw everything 2D in the Sheet layers and leave the 3D in the design layers

 

I'd regard Spaces as 3D objects

[FBernardo]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

 

I'd regard Spaces as 3D objects

 

Indeed, but my issue with having them in the Design layers, is when I'm dimensioning the plans and I want/need to move the label around what happens is I need to travel between the design layers and sheet layers and I can't see where I'm moving into with the information from the sheet layers, that is why I place the space labels in the sheet layers, makes it easier to move around... 
Now while I was writing this, it kinda came up to my mind the fact that you can delete the label and leave the space boundary due to the fact they're two independent objects, would be interesting to see leaving the boundary in the 3D space and put the label in the 2D space then... have to try that one!

[Tom W.]

 

1 hour ago, FBernardo said:

Now while I was writing this, it kinda came up to my mind the fact that you can delete the label and leave the space boundary due to the fact they're two independent objects, would be interesting to see leaving the boundary in the 3D space and put the label in the 2D space then... have to try that one!

 

Yes you can definitely do this if preferred! I take your point about when you go to Edit Design Layer to move the data tag there, not being able to see your annotations while you do it.

 

[rDesign]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

 

 

Yes you can definitely do this if preferred! I take your point about when you go to Edit Design Layer to move the data tag there, not being able to see your annotations while you do it.

 

Does this mean you can:

1) Place the Space object on a DL (3D), where it can be associated with bounding Walls;

2) Place the associated Data Tag in the SLVP (2D) Annotations? (Which is where it should be placed).
 

If so, I haven’t been able to figure out how to do this. Whenever I go into the SLVP Annotations and try to place a Data Tag for any Space, it won’t let me. (Unlike Data Tags for Door, Window, Wall, etc, objects — which do let you place them in a SLVP Annotation).

[Tom W.]

39 minutes ago, rDesign said:

Does this mean you can:

1) Place the Space object on a DL (3D), where it can be associated with bounding Walls;

2) Place the associated Data Tag in the SLVP (2D) Annotations? (Which is where it should be placed).
 

If so, I haven’t been able to figure out how to do this. Whenever I go into the SLVP Annotations and try to place a Data Tag for any Space, it won’t let me. (Unlike Data Tags for Door, Window, Wall, etc, objects — which do let you place them in a SLVP Annotation).

 

Yes you should be able to apply additional Data Tags to a Space in a SLVP - not sure why it's not letting you?

[rDesign]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:26 PM, Tom W. said:

 

Yes you should be able to apply additional Data Tags to a Space in a SLVP - not sure why it's not letting you?

It was user error. I had turned on the main Space class in the SLVP, but I neglected to turn on the classes for the 2D / 3D space boundaries. Apparently you need all of those Space classes turned on to be able to place the Space Data Tag in the SLVP Annotations. Once I had the tags placed, then I turned off those classes so I didn’t see the Space boundary fill in the SLVP. 
 

@Tom W. Thank you for your guidance. 

[Tom W.]

1 hour ago, rDesign said:

It was user error. I had turned on the main Space class in the SLVP, but I neglected to turn on the classes for the 2D / 3D space boundaries. Apparently you need all of those Space classes turned on to be able to place the Space Data Tag in the SLVP Annotations. Once I had the tags placed, then I turned off those classes so I didn’t see the Space boundary fill in the SLVP. 

 

Hmm this is strange because I can tag my Spaces in a viewport annotations space even if the 2D Boundary class is off. I have double-checked + as long as the container class for the Space is visible in the VP, all the other classes can be off + the Tag will pick up the Space. So there can be no visible geometry but the Space will still be detected.

 

This is just a test file with nothing in it apart from the Space object so perhaps the behaviour would be different if there were millions of other objects present in the VP... I generally just use the Data Tag attached to the Space on the design layer in my VPs as I'm not adding much in the way of objects in annotations that are likely to clash with its location.