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artifacts around windows

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I have recently installed VW12 with RenderWorks and converted VW 11.5 files to version 12. When rendering walls with door or window openings, I am getting strange artifacts around the openings. If there are no textures, there is a strange "halo" around the opening in the wall. If there are textures, the direction of the texture changes 90? in a perimeter of about 4" (real world) around the opening. The problem is visible in Opeb GL and in Final Quality RenderWorks. In some circumstances, the exterior wall texture will appear around the interior view of the window until the window has been flipped 4 times (sort of refreshes), then the interior texture appears on the wall, but still oriented incorrectly in this "halo" affect.

I have experienced this on both my G4 PowerBook and my G5 dual processor running either Tiger (10.4.3) or Panther (10.3.9). This problem does not occur in VW 11.5.

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As a further elaboration of my own post, I now realize in wireframe view in elevation, there is a 4 1/2" (real world) perimeter around my window plug-in elements and I have no idea what it is. This seems to correspond with the shifting textures and "halo" effects and maybe it has something to do with the new window plug-in, but I cannot get this extra perimeter linework to disappear. This shows up in 3D as an extra frame around the window???

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Thanks for your reply. I tried to get around this bug by using the VW 11.5 window pio, but VW12 does not recognize the earlier plug-in. I should know by experience not to buy version x.0 of any software, but the new feature set and the demo videos are very seductive. It would be nice if VW were rock solid (which has never happened), but it seems that core features of VW (doors, windows, walls, etc.) should be rock solid before releasing updates.

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The workaround for this one is not to use trim on the windows. If you remove the trim the problem (and the trim!) will disappear. What I've done is made my PIO's into symbols so that when a fix is provided (by NNA) all I'll need to do is edit one of each windo type to add the trim back. Fot the purposes of client presentation I have been creating exterior trim by extruding a (clipped surface) polyline. I also usually have a class called "ext trim" so that I will be able to go back pretty quickle and remove what will be redundant window trim. We are all awaiting the .01 release in hopes that this and a few other little nasties will have been exterminated. In the meantime I hope this little trick helps...

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VW 12.0.1 update has not fixed the problem and Nemetschek is stonewalling. This is a serious issue regarding rendereing high quality images with "windows" or "doors." Maybe we should eliminate "doors" and "windows" in architecture.

In any event, VW 12 is worthless for my purposes and I am "working" in VW 11.5 which is not flawed in this respect.

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If what you are referring to is this:

window_a.jpg

then the problem is not really a rendering issue, but rather a PIO issue. ?What the window PIO is doing is setting the Jamb depth to the default for all windows in v12, which is the wall depth. ?This means that the jamb is the exact thickness of the wall. What we are seeing is the rendering engine trying to resolve co-planar surfaces, hence the zebra striping. You can see this in the window prefs dialogue, under parts/jamb.

window_b.gif

You can set this value to something less then the wall thickness (if you don't want to see it) or something more (if you want to see it, almost as trim). You will find this to be a problem with all default window objects.

Dave D... I bug listed this, along with screen shots and this explanation, already. Perhaps Eden would remember.

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Good info. Here is a question.

Can all of the window jambs be changed at once, or does the user need to change each window jamb one by one by one....?

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I think it has to be one by one, unless you used a symbol for windows that were identical in configuration. If you do have PIO windows that are the same, but you did not create a symbol, you can use the eye dropper tool, making sure to turn on the "Record" and "Plug-in Parameters" options in the Other Attributes section of the Eyedropper Prefs Dialogue.

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After further experimentation, I now find that the big border around rendered windows and doors occurs in VW 11.5.1 as well as VW 12.0.1 (2/21 update). I had not noticed this before because all of my interior and exterior window trims in earlier projects were the same width which disguises the problem. To work around this in VW 11.5, use the "Simple door 2" and "simple window 2" pio's in lieu of the updated version of these pio's which shipped with VW 11 (or possibly earlier).

To see the problem very dramatically in VW 11.5, create a wall and insert a "Simple Window 2" in the wall and a newer type "Window" in the same wall. Give each window a 4" exterior trim and a 12" interior trim. Give the wall an exterior texture such as shingles or siding. Then render the exterior of the wall. The "simple window" will render correctly, however, the more up to date "window" will render with a 12" border (from the interior) or misaligned textures.

Un fortunately, the "Simple" pio's do not work with VW 12 (the simple window works with error messages and the simple door crashes VectorWorks 12).

This problem shows up in VW 11.5.1 in "Hidden Line," in "Final Quality RenderWorks," in "Artistic RenderWorks," in "Final Shaded Polygon," and "Open GL." This problem shows up in VW 12.0.1 in "Final Quality RenderWorks," in "Artistic RenderWorks," and in "Open GL," but not in "Hidden Line," or "Final Shaded Polygon,"

I am surprised not to have seen this in VW 11.5 or read about it previously.

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You also get the odd black lines around the window in elevation which are annoying as they are uncontrolable and thick and black, ruining the elevation. I thought it was down to setting the window in the wall but that does not seem to control it. The lines are either on one side or the other of the window - odd!?

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After even more experimentation, I now realize (as others have found), that one cannot apply textures to the parts of "Simple" doors and windows in VW 11.5.1. One can apply a texture to the whole window (int jambs, ext jambs, sills, etc., but the individual parts cannot be controled with the "style?" textures. These are legacy PIO's and do not work properly with VW 11.5.1 and do not work at all with VW 12.

So, window and door PIO's do not render properly with VW 11 or VW 12. The only option is to use the updated versions of these PIO's and keep the interior and exterior trims the same width, or to convert to symbols as some have suggested, although this has not worked for me, yet.

This is very frustrating.

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See NNA still have not resolved this!!

The odd black lines have now become whole, thick black lines, that appear unctrollable but we will try michels's suggestion above.

But it would be nice to know what NNA's formal advice is on this?

mw

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We are currently working on addressing the problem. We were unable to fix the entire problem in time for 12.0.1. Most artifact issues have been resolved for 12.0.1, though.

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Why issue 12.0.1 if it did not fix the problems? 12.0.1 was sold to me as a fix for all the problems of 12, especially in regards to sections, windows and doors, but it seems to have created more problems than it has solved.

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If you have an issue of a NEW problem in VW 12 after 12 01, please report it to bugsubmit@nemetschek.net.

Fixing problems is not as easy as you seem to think it is. Please be patient. The engineering team is working very hard to address the issues.

The best thing to do when you have what you think is a bug, send an email to bugsubmit@nemetschek.net.

This guarantees it enetered in the bug database.

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A possible workaround might be what I did recently.

I put two elevations above each-other. The one in the bottom I set to open GL and the one above I put to hidden line.

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I started this thread and I am the 1st to complain about bugs, but this bug seems to have been fixed with version 12.5. In fact, I have been using version 12.5 for about a month and it seems to work very well.

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