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lwa import in VW 12?


Yovav

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Hello again Yovav:

As far as I know, there are not a lot of free textures or models in LWA format as yet. From the LW User site (http://www.lightworks-user.com/downloads.php), there are a few archives of materials and a few RPC entourage objects. There aren't any models in LWA format except RPC objects. Materials are represented more than anything else, and most of these are not as interesting as the hundreds of textures included with RW.

Note that a new feature in VW 12 (except in the Fundamentals version) is 3DS format import and export, which really does give you access to thousands of models available on the web. This includes import of any image-based textures used by the 3DS file as well.

Landmark and Designer ship with more than a hundred xFrog-generated trees as image props.

I forgot to mention the new human figure plugin too. Non-Fundamentals versions come with this to pose your own and also a symbol library of pre-posed 3D people.

[ 11-04-2005, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Dave Donley ]

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Dave

I noted your piece of news that the 3DS format import and export is not available in Fundimentals and I have to ask why ?

I've used software a tenth of the price of VW with this capability.

In most other programs I have experience of they do not "cripple" a version in what appears to me a tactic to make you spend more money on upgrading to another, which in terms of added features does not represent value for money over the basic version, relative to your needs.

Certainly from the aspect of something as "fundimental" as file import and export.

What next - not keeping up with dxf/dwg levels of import in line with Autocad releases unless you buy one of the industry versions !

Alan

[ 11-05-2005, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: alanmac ]

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quote:

Originally posted by alanmac:

I noted your piece of news that the 3DS format import and export is not available in Fundimentals and I have to ask why ?

I've used software a tenth of the price of VW with this capability.

In most other programs I have experience of they do not "cripple" a version in what appears to me a tatic to make you spend more money on upgrading to another, which in terms of added features does not represent value for money over the basic version, relative to your needs.

Alan

I think this is a very pertinant point Alan, though I imagine Dave is really not the person to be asking curly questions like that. ;-)

It echos the absence of the Sketch function in "fundamentals" that arose at 11.5 time, and the identical point was raised by a number of people. ie: For a section of proffesional users whose business is product (in my case furniture) design, none of the specialty versions add specific functionality that warrants the additional expense. Doubling (roughly) upgrade expenses to go to a specialty version for something as "fundamental" as 3ds transfer seems excessive (even with Sketch thrown in).

I doubt that the relevant users would mind if there was a version that addressed the specific needs of designers; much more reliable and powerful 3D modeling would be a start!

The current "Designer" offering is, of course, nothing to do with "Designers"; it's just all the other things that aren't for "designers"; otherwise known as the "industry collection".

Personally, I have the Industry collection in order to gain that extra functionality, but all that's meant is that I'm now upgrading every second version because the AU$1300 upgrade price every 18 months is too much for my small business when weighed against the incremental productivity improvements from single versions.

I'm sure Sean and the Product Development team carefully discuss the strategy for who gets what and when, but I'd ask NNA to consider these decisions again, and particularly, to look at a Designer version that really is for designers.

cheers,

N

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Hello Dave

THX for the disappointing replay.

I'm not looking into specific content, but I don't see the logic (If you didn't switch your rendering engine) behind the decision.

One of VW few disadvantages is the limited user's base. While other 3D software users got dozens of internet sites, containing thousands of free downloadable textures, models etc., we don't. Lightworks lwa format let us use a huge free collection of 3D elements created by other software users, and commercial companies. If VW could import that stuff we could get much more elements, some of them in very high quality, and save a lot of time.

As every new version of VW brings us bigger libraries of "time-savers" like ready made symbols and plug-ins, I don't understand why not to implement this good strategy in 3D as well. Especially when Lightworks engine got that capability as built-in feature.

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quote:

Originally posted by BaRa:

When you have LWA libraries, chances are that they are also available in 3DS. The other way around is less likely. So I think NNA made the right choice, by adding 3DS instead of LWA. That way most people get served.

About the Designer version: perhaps NNA should have used something nondescriptive like "revit". Then there would be no such discussion
[Wink]

Best,

BaRa

Thanks for the extra info Bart, but you have missed the point -while reinforcing it at the same time :-)

Yes; 3DS is the "most common" format around, but people who buy Fundamentals do not "get served" at all with 3DS. that's the first point.

The second point is that people who do product design also, really, do not "get served" by any of the existing specialties.

Hey, they could have called it revit, ....or the "Industry Collection" perhaps.

The name is irrelevant; the issue is about doubling the cost of your software expenses to buy a whole lot of features that are useless to your proffesion, in order to gain 1 or 2 that are "fundamental" and ought to be in the base version.

It's not even about the cost. I'm sure designers would be happy to pay extra for a specialty module; if they got "a module's worth" of productivity enhancements that were usefull to them, rather than useless

maybe we should be discussing this in a different thread? ;-)

cheers,

N.

[ 11-05-2005, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: propstuff ]

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A small comment - for what it's worht - on the LWA subject. The most common format for 3D libraries is 3DS. VectorWorks is not a 3Danimation application, so it doesn't need to be able to import a pleiade of 3Danimation formats. When you have LWA libraries, chances are that they are also available in 3DS. The other way around is less likely. So I think NNA made the right choice, by adding 3DS instead of LWA. That way most people get served.

About the Designer version: perhaps NNA should have used something nondescriptive like "revit". Then there would be no such discussion [Wink]

Best,

BaRa

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Hi Nicholas

You know my view on the differences in provided capabilities which I'll expand on.

As regards the module approach, judging by the way it works with Cinema 4D its a big mistake if their example is anything to go by.

Whilst from outward appearance it looks a great idea, the problem comes at upgrade time, you have to pay to upgrade each of the modules although nothing may have changed.

It seems you still have to pay to ensure compatability because I believe they have to spend time ensuring the"connections" now works with the increased functions of the new basic version.

Then the upgrade cost also of each module gets heatily debated !!

You are right, in my opinion, and probably many others, there is no true "Designer" version that offers the value of the other single versions.

To merely rename the Industry collection as Designer sounds like the idea of some marketing exec rather than anybody with an understanding of what is needed.

I would say we are all in some way "Designers" then we have the specialist areas beyond that. It's a bit ass about face to me.

The Designer version should be the core version with capabilities expected of a modern day CAD/design program and the Industry Collection then reflecting the specialist areas.

I think we could debate all day long what should be included included item by item, but I'm sure things like file import would be, by most people's interpretation, a basic requirement not a feature.

The whole reasoning behind the splitting off was to show that you only pay for what you needed and that the Industry version added value to your specialist area. To make somebody who may need one or two items from the many available in each version, pay the the price of the whole collection is in my opinion, and it sounds like yours too, is wrong.

Alan

[ 11-06-2005, 06:11 AM: Message edited by: alanmac ]

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Deciding what goes into the fundamentals, and what goes into other versions is very difficult. And if you have many versions - like NNA - then the problem grows exponentially.

Nevertheless, there should be a difference between versions. Otherwise we would end up with one single version like the industry series, and we would all have to cough up the money for that version. Are you prepared to do that? I don't think so, otherwise you would probably be using the industry series (or designer version).

So yes, NNA's decission is debatable. But if your 3DS exchange would be included, then some other part might be left out. And other users would start complaining. So there's only one possible conclusion: if it's something you urgently need, and it makes a big difference for your business, then get a version that allows the exchange.

If you think it's too expensive, then think about something like your car (if you have one). Most people need a car for their business. And most people buy something uterly expensive, while they could have had the same result - getting them from A to B - with a lot less money. And perhaps they complain about the price of gas, but do you see them returning their cars? So instead of buying the cheaper thing with equal business results, they bought something more expensive. Now back to VectorWorks, which you probably use during a big part of the day, and which helps you to make money. You know how much it costs you. You know how often you need the 3DS import. You also know that, if a library exists in 3DS, it's also almost always available in DXF. Do you often have libraries that come as 3DS only? Does it take a lot of time to get them into VW? If the answer is yes, then perhaps it is worth to upgrade to another version of VW. And yes, I do believe it is as simple as that. People get all sentimental on software, while software is only a small part of your company investments. No-one forces you to upgrade. You have to decide for yourself if the upgrade is worth your money.

Cheers,

BaRa

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