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Doors and Windows not Creating Holes in Walls


Anelisa

Question

Hi! 

I had created a model with windows and doors and it looked all fine. As soon as I section viewported this in order to draft on a sheet later, I have this situation. 

I have tried re-drawing and I keep getting this issue. I'm not understanding why this is happening.

 

I am using Vectorworks Design 2023 trial with MacOS Monterey Version 12.3.1

 

Please help! 

Screen Shot 2022-10-26 at 3.01.56 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-10-26 at 3.02.06 PM.png

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38 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Funny thing is VW was perfectly happy operating with 13K-worth repairs needing carrying out. I only ran the function out of habit not because I was experiencing any issues...

 

Yes, sometimes, when I update other software, I also open VW Updater to look for

updates. If no updates but Updater already started - I do a repair instead ....

🤣

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On 10/27/2022 at 12:04 AM, Anelisa said:

As soon as I section viewported this in order to draft on a sheet later, I have this situation. 

 

Screen Shot 2022-10-26 at 3.02.06 PM.png

 

 

This looks a bit like in other Software, which usually uses "cut Volumes" on a hidden Layer

to create the openings in Walls. If you accidentally make this layer visible, it looks exactly

like your example.

 

Now as Walls are true Solids, does VW Walls use something like this too and maybe just.

Unlikely (?) as other screenshots look more like there is no opening around the Windows at all.

For me it looks a bit like just a display error from rendering. A visibility hiccup ?

 

But i wonder why the, sharper angle to camera, Y oriented Walls show Windows and openings

correctly, but the X oriented Walls with flatter angle to camera don't !?

 

Would an export to DWG miss openings too ?

Edited by zoomer
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This has just happened to me in 2023 SP3 too. Door in wall, all fine. Changed the door size and suddenly it's not cutting a hole through the wall. It looks OK in top/plan view but not when I look at it in 3d. Moving it in and out of the wall doesn't solve it. VW thinks it's inserted because it shows as "door in wall" in the OIP.

 

Starting to regret moving to 2023 now...

 

 

 

 

 

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If I copy the whole Wall with inserts, the Openings appear ...

If I export your original geometry to DWG from 3D View, DWG also has no openings

and no Windows at all. Just the Door !?

 

But why is that wall looking like to separate Walls, between Door and Windows,

although being a single Wall ?

(Somehow the Wall seem to be broken for me and I can't "SIMPLIFY" it in DWG too !?)

 

So I tried the "Remove Wall Breaks Tool",

beside that it will also delete Doors and Windows !!!!!???

The Wall is healthy again.

Also the openings came back that way.

 

Beside the Fillets at Wall Ends, which come from Connections with other Walls

in your complete File, does that strange Wall separation Lines come also from

Wall Connections ?

 

And there are traces of another Wall Connection directly above the Door on

the Wall's back side. Is this a valid/needed Connection ?

Edited by zoomer
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1 hour ago, zoomer said:

 

But why is that wall looking like to separate Walls, between Door and Windows,

although being a single Wall ?

(Somehow the Wall seem to be broken for me and I can't "SIMPLIFY" it in DWG too !?)

 

I don't know!

 

 

1 hour ago, zoomer said:

 

So I tried the "Remove Wall Breaks Tool",

beside that it will also delete Doors and Windows !!!!!???

The Wall is healthy again.

Also the openings came back that way.

 

Same result here (but this is after doing a "repair" on my VW2023 install).

Also, moving it by 0,0 will solve it

 

 

1 hour ago, zoomer said:

 

Beside the Fillets at Wall Ends, which come from Connections with other Walls

in your complete File, does that strange Wall separation Lines come also from

Wall Connections ?

 

yes, it does somehow come from a messy wall connection. It is inherited from a "as existing" model which has been changed to the "as proposed" but I have not got around to cleaning up that old connection. Below is what it looks like in the "as existing" model, both in "problem" and "healed" states.

 

1 hour ago, zoomer said:

 

And there are traces of another Wall Connection directly above the Door on

the Wall's back side. Is this a valid/needed Connection ?

 

As above, no it's not needed in the "as proposed" version. The door opening is enlarged compared to the original.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Screenshot 2023-01-31 at 11.47.37.jpg

Screenshot 2023-01-31 at 11.47.51.jpg

Edited by line-weight
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Yes - although I lost all of my door and window openings in that model, when the problem suddenly happened. Not just in that wall.

 

The only unusual thing I did to that wall, that I can think of, was to use the "resize" handles to change the shape and size of the window openings, something I'd not tried before because it wasn't possible in earlier versions of VW.

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1 hour ago, line-weight said:

Yes - although I lost all of my door and window openings in that model, when the problem suddenly happened. Not just in that wall.

 

The only unusual thing I did to that wall, that I can think of, was to use the "resize" handles to change the shape and size of the window openings, something I'd not tried before because it wasn't possible in earlier versions of VW.


When this happens to me, I also lose all of the door and window opening in the model. 

 

I have a feeling that it happened for me when I was adjusting the top & bottom offset heights of Wall Components using the Wall object OIP. I have to zoom in to close to the wall to see what offsets I need, and when I zoomed out the door & wall openings were missing. Not certain this is what triggered it, but just a vague recollection of what I was doing when it happened.

 

Same as for you, none of the other suggested fixes work for me until I first run the Vw Updater Repair.

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Just happened again - when I tried to resize a window opening. Resize the window opening (either using the handles on the object, or by typing a new value in the OIP) and the holes fill in, throughout the model. Undo reverses it, trying the same again, the problem is replicated. It seems to happen if I resize either of the openings on that particular wall - but not if I try resizing openings in other walls in the model.

 

Fairly sure I've re-sized those openings a few times since I previously did the "repair" on VW, without issue.

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Thank you all for your continued help with this issue.  It is very much appreciated!

 

@Anelisa's file and other files that could not be fixed by moving the wall by (0, 0) did help us zero in on at least one issue (my hope it's related to all of them).  The issue has to do with the wall hole geometry (for whatever reason) becoming non-manifold.  This causes problems with the wall closure system.  We're not certain if there's a trigger that suddenly causes some wall holes to become non-manifold but a fix is currently being tested that checks for this case and attempts to correct the geometry.  So far it corrects any files I have that could not be fixed by moving the wall.  If you come across any other cases like that, please send me the files for testing.

 

NOTE:  This does not necessarily mean all these issues will be gone with this fix (but I hope so) so please do let us know if you manage to come up with a reproducible case (where the holes disappear).

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3 hours ago, Pat Stanford said:

If it is repeatable, please send it in as a bug. That is the biggest holdup in getting this fixed is that the engineers have not been able to come up with a replicable case to troubleshoot.

because it looks like it's fixed by "repairs" to the VW application itself, I'd assumed that sending a file is not necessarily going to produce something replicable, because it somehow depends on the state of the application as well as the state of the file itself.

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It happened to me again yesterday, after working in this file all day. In the morning I had suffered the 3D graphic shards, so I restarted my computer prior to the issues described in this thread.
 

1) I quit Vw and open the Vw Updater and used the Repair function (repaired 61 files);

2) restarted my computer, opened Vw and the problematic Vw file;

3) I was able to fix the openings by selecting a Window, choosing Settings on the OIP, and clicking OK without making any changes to the settings.
 

Back to working normal now. So for me anyways, running Vw Updater Repair is the only reliable way to get my Windows cutting Walls again.

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
57 minutes ago, rDesign said:

It happened to me again yesterday, after working in this file all day. In the morning I had suffered the 3D graphic shards, so I restarted my computer prior to the issues described in this thread.
 

1) I quit Vw and open the Vw Updater and used the Repair function (repaired 61 files);

2) restarted my computer, opened Vw and the problematic Vw file;

3) I was able to fix the openings by selecting a Window, choosing Settings on the OIP, and clicking OK without making any changes to the settings.
 

Back to working normal now. So for me anyways, running Vw Updater Repair is the only reliable way to get my Windows cutting Walls again.

 

Thanks for mentioning this.

Can you send me the Updater Repair Log?

 

I noted your post in the bug report (VB-190588).

As I mentioned, this issue should go away with the next service pack.  However, please do keep us posted when you notice these issues.

 

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3 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

Thanks for mentioning this.

Can you send me the Updater Repair Log?

 

I noted your post in the bug report (VB-190588).

As I mentioned, this issue should go away with the next service pack.  However, please do keep us posted when you notice these issues.

 

 

Thanks Matt - I'll send you the updater repair log(s). After I posted this It happened again twice today... I'm really hoping that service pack fixes this -- it can't come soon enough for me.

 

Today it hasn't been happening to all of the windows, only a few of them, and not the same ones. 

Edited by rDesign
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16 hours ago, rDesign said:

 

Thanks Matt - I'll send you the updater repair log(s). After I posted this It happened again twice today... I'm really hoping that service pack fixes this -- it can't come soon enough for me.

 

Today it hasn't been happening to all of the windows, only a few of them, and not the same ones. 

 

Thanks Tim!  I got the logs and added the additional notes you sent me to the bug report.

I do believe SP4 will take care of this issue.

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Just happened again to me… this will be my fourth FIFTH time running Vw Updater +Repair in three days. ☹️
 

When is SP4 expected to be released?

 

Update: Just happened AGAIN. Only made it about an hour since last running the Vw Updater +Repair. 😠

Edited by rDesign
happened again - fifth time in 3 days
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Just happened again this morning, after only working in the file for less than 15 minutes. Which is 15 minutes after I had just run Vw Updater +Repair. Having to run repair multiple times a day is not much fun…
 

  1. This morning it happened when I was in a SVLP Annotation and reshaping a 2D polyline — when Vw started to get really laggy and the mouse pointer was not following my movements, and then I got a spinning beach ball.
  2. After about 15 seconds of non-responsiveness I was able to exit the SLVP Annotation, I switched to the DL and noticed that one of the Windows is not cutting the wall anymore. It just happened to be the Wall that was in the SLVP I was annotating.
  3. I tried to move the Window 0,0 and that didn’t fix it, so I’m off to run Repair again.

I get these lags (described above in #1) at least about once a day: The next time it happens I’ll check to see if that is my indicator that my Windows are no longer cutting Walls. 
 

Does Vw make any kind of Log file in the macOS Console for each occurrence of when it causes a spinning Beach Ball? Seems like it should.

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On 2/21/2023 at 11:45 AM, rDesign said:

Just happened again this morning, after only working in the file for less than 15 minutes. Which is 15 minutes after I had just run Vw Updater +Repair. Having to run repair multiple times a day is not much fun…
 

  1. This morning it happened when I was in a SVLP Annotation and reshaping a 2D polyline — when Vw started to get really laggy and the mouse pointer was not following my movements, and then I got a spinning beach ball.
  2. After about 15 seconds of non-responsiveness I was able to exit the SLVP Annotation, I switched to the DL and noticed that one of the Windows is not cutting the wall anymore. It just happened to be the Wall that was in the SLVP I was annotating.
  3. I tried to move the Window 0,0 and that didn’t fix it, so I’m off to run Repair again.

I get these lags (described above in #1) at least about once a day: The next time it happens I’ll check to see if that is my indicator that my Windows are no longer cutting Walls. 
 

Does Vw make any kind of Log file in the macOS Console for each occurrence of when it causes a spinning Beach Ball? Seems like it should.

 

First, my apologies for the trouble you're having.  Second, thank you for keeping us posted on all these details!  Every little bit helps us to isolate the cause of the issue.  It's much appreciated!

 

Question:  When you have the wall hole issue and run the Repair, what steps do you take to restore the wall holes?  I ask because some of us see the issue in the file, select the wall, reset it (by using the Move command and moving by 0, 0) and the wall holes still do not show.  We then run the Repair and try the same steps again.  However, resetting the wall still didn't bring the wall holes back.  IOW, we see no difference before and after running Repair.  Note:  Resetting the Door and Window objects always shows the holes for us - both before and after the Repair.

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50 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

Question:  When you have the wall hole issue and run the Repair, what steps do you take to restore the wall holes?  I ask because some of us see the issue in the file, select the wall, reset it (by using the Move command and moving by 0, 0) and the wall holes still do not show.  We then run the Repair and try the same steps again.  However, resetting the wall still didn't bring the wall holes back.  IOW, we see no difference before and after running Repair.  Note:  Resetting the Door and Window objects always shows the holes for us - both before and after the Repair.

 

To clarify, are you saying that in some scenarios, resetting the wall object doesn't solve the issue but resetting the door/window objects does?

 

(I think when I've done it, I've reset the wall objects rather than the door/window objects but can't remember for sure - will try and pay attention next time it happens.)

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2 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

First, my apologies for the trouble you're having.  Second, thank you for keeping us posted on all these details!  Every little bit helps us to isolate the cause of the issue.  It's much appreciated!

 

Question:  When you have the wall hole issue and run the Repair, what steps do you take to restore the wall holes?  I ask because some of us see the issue in the file, select the wall, reset it (by using the Move command and moving by 0, 0) and the wall holes still do not show.  We then run the Repair and try the same steps again.  However, resetting the wall still didn't bring the wall holes back.  IOW, we see no difference before and after running Repair.  Note:  Resetting the Door and Window objects always shows the holes for us - both before and after the Repair.

 

Thanks for staying on top of this @Matt Panzer

 

Question Back: I'm not sure I understand the difference you're describing in your "Note: Resetting the Door and Window objects always shows the holes for us - both before and after the Repair."

 

By 'Resetting the Door and Window Objects' are you referring to Tools -> Utilities -> Reset All Plug-ins ? I have not been doing this, as I don't know if it is resetting more than I want -- and it would be a pain to keep re-choosing my Preferences every day.

 

(That we're seeing different outcomes in our steps-to-fix makes me concerned that this issue won't be resolved in SP4.)

 

Here's the steps I take to restore my wall holes. So far *fingers crossed* this has always fixed the issue for me, however temporarily, as it happens about once a day at least.

  1. When I see some of my doors / windows have lost their wall holes, I switch to a top / plan view (don't know why), save the file and quit Vectorworks.
  2. I quit all other applications and open up the Vw 2023 Updater app and click the Advanced Options + button and select 'Repair'.
  3. Once it's complete, I restart my Mac. (Sometimes if I'm not in a hurry I run Onyx which is a macOS maintenance app, but it takes a long time).
  4. After my Mac has restarted, I open Vw 2023 and open my file. 
  5. I switch back to the DL with the bad door / window, select a 3D view and either -
    1. Select the door / window and Move it 0,0 -or-
    2. Select the door / window and on the OIP click Settings... I don't change anything and just click OK.
  6. Either option results in the door / window redrawing and the window holes reappear.
  7. If there are multiple windows / doors in a wall that are missing holes, all openings in that hosted wall will be fixed by the above steps.
  8. If there are other openings in other affected walls, I have to repeat the above for that hosted wall. Meaning that fixing one door / window in the file will not fix all openings unless they are on the same hosted wall.

 

Note: I don't think that the spinning Beach Ball I've been getting is related to this issue. I think it's just that Vw gets laggy for whatever reason.

Edited by rDesign
added note about beach ball
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
On 2/22/2023 at 5:53 PM, line-weight said:

 

To clarify, are you saying that in some scenarios, resetting the wall object doesn't solve the issue but resetting the door/window objects does?

 

Yes.  Most cases I've seen are fixed by resetting only the affected wall.  But we do have a file where that doesn't work but resetting the affected doors and windows still fixes it.

 

On 2/22/2023 at 5:53 PM, line-weight said:

(I think when I've done it, I've reset the wall objects rather than the door/window objects but can't remember for sure - will try and pay attention next time it happens.)

 

Thank you!

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