cberg Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Just when you think the Space Tool can't get any more quirky and complicated, it does. 4 Quote Link to comment
Popular Post cberg Posted October 30, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 30, 2022 It's taken a while for me to work through this list, but here are some of my sticking points (aka challenges) with the new space + data tag functionalities. 1. It is much harder to find and modify spaces. In VW 2022, you could click on the tag for the space label, and the space would highlight, which provided an easy way to check the polygon without turning on the space boundary. Now, if you turn off the boundaries of the space, it is really hard to select the space and not the tag (or a ceiling grid, or floor finish, or whatever polygon is around the edge of a room.) If you label spaces in the design layer, there are now two separate (but sort of linked) objects to keep track of. Can there be a dialogue box to select the space associated with the data tag? Interestingly when you click on a data tag, the boundary of the space highlights, but you can't seem to move or stretch the space boundary. 2. Fine. As a working method, I have made all my spaces yellow, so I can see them and assigned the data tags to a new class. 3. However, in certain files, when I modify a given space, the data tag changes classes and reverts to the class of the space. This isn't consistent from file to file, so I think it must be a setting somewhere. Not sure if this is set by the space style or the data tag style? This leads me to the next observation. 4. Two styled dialogue boxes = double the settings and double the chance for something to be set (by style or instance) not to your liking. 5. Okay.. Moving forward… So maybe the space data tag change was made to make it easier to scale space tags in a sheet layer. However, space data tag labels in viewports only work when the space is turned on. This means you need to set the attributes of the spaces to be set by class, and each viewport needs to override the class settings, so you don't see the space boundaries. Moreover, the fields of the space cannot be modified in the data tag, which means one really needs to use the data tag in a design viewport to fully visualize the data. 5. Can anybody explain the following dialogue box? I think it must be related to the data tag class changing issue, but I don't know which object style governs what. Just curious, how does the VW marketing and engineering team think we should be working with this tool? Does anybody have a good way to set a file up? Was any of this beta tested before being released to the broader VW Community??? C. 5 Quote Link to comment
Kevin C Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 From my simplistic viewpoint, they have taken a tool which was really difficult and not user friendly and just made it 10 times worse. Spaces in VW have always been problematic, they are actually provide very little use, but they are needed. As we have now moved forward onto Datatags and spaces being intrinsically linked, one of my biggest gripes is that I cannot associate a space with it in the Datatag OIP or at least give us an option of changing the way 2D locus are represented on screen so that we can see the!!! There should be a way of selecting the space without having to scowl round the drawing trying to find a 2D locus which, by it's design is nearly impossible to find if there are any objects in the drawing. 3 Quote Link to comment
Kevin C Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) As a sidenote - we as a practice cannot work in projects that have been imported from earlier versions (2022) and use spaces as the conversion process splits a space into a space and Datatag - making it nearly impossible to work with. Well done VW another 'user improvement' that makes life harder again. Edited December 22, 2022 by Kevin C 1 Quote Link to comment
cberg Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) Working with the VW2023 space tool is an absolute nightmare! I imported a very old project from a very old version of VW into 2023. There were about 100 rooms so I didn't want to make new spaces. So... this afternoon, I spent a few hours trying to convert the old space objects into the new format. But I am struggling to figure out what is happening with these converted spaces. I deleted the associated data tags in the Space Labels Dialogue Box. I changed the custom name and room number. But the old space label elements are showing up in some label format that I can't delete or turn off. Can anybody help me figure out what is going on? I want to delete the blue text and use space label data tags. File attached. Thanks! C Space Label Question.vwx Edited January 3, 2023 by cberg 1 Quote Link to comment
Jeff Prince Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 On 12/22/2022 at 8:26 AM, Kevin C said: they have taken a tool which was really difficult and not user friendly and just made it 10 times worse. This situation is unfortunate. I wish Vectorworks talked to industry professionals prior to “improving” important tools. Over the years they have broken many tools functionalities and in the process, wasted 10s of thousands of user hours as we all figure out how to adopt, work around, or give up on certain workflows. a few examples: Plant styles defaults user interface color picker site model contour labels hardscapes landscape areas stairs etc… Quote Link to comment
Kees W Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 I agree with the above. This new space/data tag combination is an absolute horror to work with. We, and I assume, most everyone, use the space tool without a fill. Since the data tag is now, for some baffling reason, a separate entity from the actual space, it is neigh impossible to select the space (you'll always hit the wall instead). To make matters even more ridiculous, selecting the data tag in no way shape or form allow you to edit any of the data it contains, for that you still have to have the space selected. At the very least, can we have a button to select the space the data tag is associated with, because this current situation is causing massive frustration and loss of time. 3 Quote Link to comment
MarcelP102 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 When selecting the tag you see the red contour highlights on top, you can select that. But I agree it seems like a step back and direct input of the data tag is a missed opportunity.. Quote Link to comment
rDesign Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) Add me to the list of long-term Vw users confounded by the changes to the Space / Data Tag in Vw2023. All I want is a Room Name and a Number in a box which I can change on the OIP, just like I used to be able to do in Vw2022 - but for the life of me I cannot figure out how to do it. It shouldn't take multiple hours trying to make it work. I've learned how to reshape the boundary of the Space (red contoured highlights), but I don't know how to change the Name or Number on the Data Tag. I searched the Vw University for 'Space' and none of the results are regarding the changes in Vw2023. Edited January 31, 2023 by rDesign 1 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 3 hours ago, rDesign said: All I want is a Room Name and a Number in a box which I can change on the OIP, just like I used to be able to do in Vw2022 - but for the life of me I cannot figure out how to do it. It shouldn't take multiple hours trying to make it work. The 'Space Tag-One Line' Data Tag in the VW libraries does this: You just need to rearrange the layout/graphics to your liking + save it as a new style. Are you using Data Tags elsewhere in your projects? The Tag is simply 'reading' info from the object it is attached to. So in this case the 'Space Number' + 'Space Name' fields from the Space. So edit those fields in the Space + the Tag display changes accordingly. 1 Quote Link to comment
rDesign Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 @Tom W. - thanks for the assistance. I have not been using Data Tags in this specific project, other than the File Path Name. I have used Data Tags in previous Vw versions, just not in Vw2023 very much yet. I’ll have to give it another chance, starting by focusing on the Space objects. Quote Link to comment
rDesign Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 @Tom W. - thanks again for the direction / advice. I downloaded the sample Townhouse project from VW University which had some styled Spaces and Data Tags which I imported into my model and modified. Now I am getting more predictable results when using Spaces. 1 Quote Link to comment
Kees W Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Can someone please walk me through the steps needed to recreate the following Space Tool settings in VW2023. I'm usually pretty good at figuring stuff out or working around VW quirks, but this has me stumped. I need a space tool setting per building segment, in this example 4.10.02 is that segment. We are in this case intervening in an existing building, so the extra 1 (4.10.02.1) before the space number is added to denote preliminary numbers that are in the 1.000 range so that we know they are new space numbers. Once the numbers are set in stone, the extra 1 will be removed. In VW2022, I would then link specific items to my space label layout. For a different building segment, I would click manage space labels and create a new one form there. This is where I get lost in VW2023. It actually imports the space label as a tag, but the two seem completely detached, where do I now edit the space number suffix for example? This is what I want, but can't reproduce in VW2023: VectorWorks 2023 settings: I created a building specific tag to incorporate the building segment suffix, but it doesn't work either, and it's an ugly work around anyway They #01# etc still seem to work, but I have no idea what setting now controls these items Even though the data tag is correct, and the preview window shows the correct info, for some baffling reason, I get this instead: Can anyone shed some light on how this is supposed to work, would be much appreciated, regards, Kees Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Kees W said: Can someone please walk me through the steps needed to recreate the following Space Tool settings in VW2023. I'm usually pretty good at figuring stuff out or working around VW quirks, but this has me stumped. I need a space tool setting per building segment, in this example 4.10.02 is that segment. We are in this case intervening in an existing building, so the extra 1 (4.10.02.1) before the space number is added to denote preliminary numbers that are in the 1.000 range so that we know they are new space numbers. Once the numbers are set in stone, the extra 1 will be removed. In VW2022, I would then link specific items to my space label layout. For a different building segment, I would click manage space labels and create a new one form there. This is where I get lost in VW2023. It actually imports the space label as a tag, but the two seem completely detached, where do I now edit the space number suffix for example? This is what I want, but can't reproduce in VW2023: VectorWorks 2023 settings: I created a building specific tag to incorporate the building segment suffix, but it doesn't work either, and it's an ugly work around anyway They #01# etc still seem to work, but I have no idea what setting now controls these items Even though the data tag is correct, and the preview window shows the correct info, for some baffling reason, I get this instead: Can anyone shed some light on how this is supposed to work, would be much appreciated, regards, Kees I'm no expert on this but it looks like you can add the 4.10.02.1 prefix in the Space settings if that's what you're trying to do: Space Style > Numbering > Space Number Type > Edit Combinations... Alternatively you can add the same prefix as static text in the Data Tag but I'm guessing it's preferable to have the prefix as part of the Space Number 2 Quote Link to comment
Kees W Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Ok, not exactly an improved over having a dedicated suffix field for space numbering, but I got that to work, thx! I'm still confused as to how my space label layout (the data tag) and it's individual items are now linked to the actual space tool, but I'll just focus on getting some work done first for a bit 😅 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Kees W said: I'm still confused as to how my space label layout (the data tag) and it's individual items are now linked to the actual space tool, I don't think it's any different to how Data Tags work elsewhere: the tag is linked to the Space via the formulas in the dynamic text. In the Space Label section of the Space Settings you are just kind of pre-attaching the tag (or tags) to the Space so they appear automatically. But the Space + the Data Tag are essentially completely independent objects. Quote Link to comment
MarcelP102 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 In sp4 I can see that 'The use of data tags with space objects has been enhanced.' Since we have to wait to our local reseller to release the service pack I was wondering if anyone can check what's enhanced. Quote Link to comment
Kees W Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 I just found there's now a contextual menu "select linked space" when you click on a data tag that's associated with a space. Not sure if it's new, but that's solved a lot of my frustration concerning selecting spaces Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 I agree this is great addition. It was new with SP5: It felt like no sooner was it discussed + requested than it appeared! Thank you VW! Quote Link to comment
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