VW 2022 - Project Data in Title Blocks is resetting itself

[Llama Architect]

Help we have a new issue that is plaguing us.

We have our title block styles within our workgroup and we use a library file in there to keep title blocks / classes etc current for everyone. Just recently, whenever our 'Library Standards' reference file is updated where the title block styles live, our drawings lose all the Project Data (project name, project ID and a bespoke Client name field) and these fields revert to defaults, but the individual sheet data is retained. This is not a class issue, as re-entering the project data will display it until the next reference update. This is definitely new behaviour, has worked seamlessly before. In editing title block, link value and parameters appear correct.

Any ideas what has gone wrong?

Vectorworks 2022, sp5, problem apparent across a number of different Macs, both M1 and intel processors.

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

Hello @Llama Architect,

 

Can you share a sample test file showing the issue?

 

Thanks,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

[Llama Architect]

Hi Nikolay

Thanks for your attention. See attached two files, a template model file and a replica of our library file with the single title block style in it.
If you open the model file and update the reference path to the library file, enter a number in project ID/ project name in the title block of the model file, then hit update the reference. the project data vanishes. I've tried this locally as well as opposed to our normal server workgroup location.

Library_Standards.vwx model file template.vwx

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

Thanks for the test files @Llama Architect, they helped me understand what is going on.

 

So, you probably know that project data is document wide data and it is the same for all TBBs in the document. When you update the reference, the TBB style gets updated to reflect the reference update. This is making the style get the project data from the reference file. Once the style has different project data than the rest of the TBBs in the file, it updates them so that the project data is not out of sync.

 

Having all this in mind I think that what is happening is reasonable. Maybe you should use sheet data for data that you do not want to match the reference file?

[Llama Architect]

Thanks Nikolay, but this is different behaviour than what we have done for years, the inputted project data would always be local to the current document, it is ultimately a variable parameter within the style, the reference shouldn't be overwriting the input with the default each time? Your theory would basically say that a title block style could never be a shared resource.

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

Hello @Llama Architect,

 

I have just tested this and to me it seems like the old behavior is a bug or at least is not perfect too and is leading to project data desync. In SP2, I am able to update the reference without getting the project data of the existing TBBs to update. However, the referenced style that is in the model file is now using the referenced project data, instead of the one in the file. Now, if I create new TBB using that style, again all TBBs will start using the referenced project data. I think that the better and more secure way to achieve this would be to just have the library store the TBB style and then import it in the model files. If you update the library TBB style, you can reimport it in the model using the merge options to preserve the existing project data and get all the changes.

 

To sum up, it seems like your workflow was taking advantage of a desync bug that got fixed. Anyway, if you insist on this being the wrong way to do this, I will submit a bug report and we will see what can be done about it.

 

Best Regards,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

[Llama Architect]

Hi Nikolay, appreciate your thoroughness in testing, I definitely prefer the old way!! My gut feeling is the old way is the correct behaviour seeing as it's worked like that since VW 2019 (at least) and could affect a lot of people sharing templates/ resources, so let's submit a bug report and we'll know definitively?

 

Best regards 

Andy 

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

Bug submitted. I will try to keep you up to date here of any progress on this topic. Thanks for the feedback! 🙂

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

Hello @Llama Architect,

 

I need some more info about this. How did you initially make the reference? Did you reference the TBB style in an empty file or do you have it referenced in a template file? When you are adding the TBB style as a new reference in a document, what do you expect to happen with the project data? Should it remain the same as before the reference was done or should it now be the same as the newly added reference project data?

 

To make this clearer here is an example. You have file A with Project Name "Project A". You have the library file with the style in it with Project Name "Library Project". You make a new reference in File A of the style from the library. Do you expect the Project Name in file A to be "Project A" or do you expect it to match the reference and be "Library Project"?

 

I understand that you want to keep the file data on reference update, but creating of new references might be a different case.

 

This question is relevant only if you make a new reference to a file that already has some TBB data in it. Otherwise, the referenced data is used without any conflicts.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

[Llama Architect]

Hi Nikolay

 

We have a template file on our server under the workgroup folder which contains various paper size title blocks and styles all set up ready.  This template file references a library standard file where the original title block styles live. previously with a new drawing set up from template we would just input project data and it was all fine. Now, whenever that library file is updated and someone clicks update all references the project data disappears, and my opinion is it shouldn't, as that is per drawing file info, it reverts to blank which is our default on the title block style - so in your scenario, it reverts to 'library project', rather than say Project A already inputted on file A.

I obviously have the option to break the reference into the template file if necessary, but this is new behaviour.

 

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

Hello @Llama Architect,

 

I understand what the current issue is. As I said:

 

On 10/19/2022 at 5:29 PM, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

This question is relevant only if you make a new reference to a file that already has some TBB data in it. Otherwise, the referenced data is used without any conflicts.

 

Could you please answer this specific question and let me know what would you like to happen and not what happens now or what happened before.

On 10/19/2022 at 5:29 PM, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

To make this clearer here is an example. You have file A with Project Name "Project A". You have the library file with the style in it with Project Name "Library Project". You make a new reference in File A of the style from the library. Do you expect the Project Name in file A to be "Project A" or do you expect it to match the reference and be "Library Project"?

 

In other words, should making of new reference style change the project data in the active file or not?

 

Thanks,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

[Llama Architect]

We believe making any changes to the referenced library file or title block style therein should not change the project data in the active file.  

I think I understand your question now, and we don't create references between files that have title blocks in them, what we term model files, our design layers are in separate files (with no title block styles) that reference one way to a final model file with the title block data, so we shouldn't have project data conflicts. A model file wouldn't be referenced.

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

22 minutes ago, Llama Architect said:

We believe making any changes to the referenced library file or title block style therein should not change the project data in the active file.  

I think I understand your question now, and we don't create references between files that have title blocks in them, what we term model files, our design layers are in separate files (with no title block styles) that reference one way to a final model file with the title block data, so we shouldn't have project data conflicts. A model file wouldn't be referenced.

- Thanks for your answer. 🙂

[mdaszenies]

On 10/27/2022 at 12:49 PM, Llama Architect said:

We believe making any changes to the referenced library file or title block style therein should not change the project data in the active file.  
 

 

Hi Nikolay,

 

same problem here.

To make it more understandable: When inserting a Door or Lighting Fixture from Libraries, you can set individual parameters (Door ID, Channel Number). You should be able to change the design of the door or fixture in the Library, but you'll keep the data that are attached to those items.

 

One Title Block style from a Library may serve MANY projects, so what sense would it make to have the Project Data updated from the Library?

 

Best, Mario

PS: Same behaviour with the latest 2023 SP.

Edited January 16, 2023 by mdaszenies

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

Hello all,

 

Project data should no longer be overwritten from referenced files on reference update as of VW 2023 SP3. If you see the same problem in SP3, comment here or PM me with sample files or screen recording showing the issue.

 

Best Regards,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

[mdaszenies]

I missed the latest latest SP3. This fixed it, thanks. 

[Llama Architect]

Is this fixed for VW 2022 as per original post?

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

On 2/4/2023 at 2:00 PM, Llama Architect said:

Is this fixed for VW 2022 as per original post?

- No, this is fixed in VW 2023 SP3 as mentioned above.