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Strange Shaded Mode Artifacts


zoomer

Question

M1 Mini 16 GB, macOS 13 Ventura latest PB.

File converted from VW 2021 (?)

 

I see strange artifacts when

- Shaded Mode Shadows activated

- Perspective Mode

 

Screenshot_2022-09-16_12_37_41.thumb.jpg.d55c2c82df3382e1d78d65a6f693e9e5.jpg

 

 

The more I zoom out the worse it gets. If I zoom in a lot the artifacts get

less until they disappear.

And it will not happen at all in Orthogonal Mode !

 

Screenshot_2022-09-16_12_38_00.thumb.jpg.ff20f5ebd2e2ff63edde382199181745.jpg

 

 

Exclusions :

- Geometry is not far away from VW origin

- I do not have duplicated Walls

- Shadow or Details Quality has no influence

 

Screenshot_2022-09-16_12_45_40.jpg.0fd17eb21637daffd1eb9e6b6d28d31b.jpg

Edited by zoomer
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3 hours ago, line-weight said:

Is this in VW2023? If so that's very disappointing that this is still not fixed.

 

Yes, VW 2023.

But I have not seen this before.

Although basically all my files are somehow migrated from former VW Versions.

But usually one at a time ....

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Hello @zoomer The interior geometry for the wall components is being used to determine where wall edges should be shown, and in these cases it is unhelpful and causing the artifacts.  We will need to change the algorithm for draw edges to get rid of these wall artifacts; we will make this a priority item for the team.

 

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1 hour ago, Dave Donley said:

Hello @zoomer The interior geometry for the wall components is being used to determine where wall edges should be shown, and in these cases it is unhelpful and causing the artifacts.  We will need to change the algorithm for draw edges to get rid of these wall artifacts; we will make this a priority item for the team.

 

Huge happy news @Dave Donley. Looking forward to the fix.

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1 hour ago, Dave Donley said:

Hello @zoomer The interior geometry for the wall components is being used to determine where wall edges should be shown, and in these cases it is unhelpful and causing the artifacts.  We will need to change the algorithm for draw edges to get rid of these wall artifacts; we will make this a priority item for the team.

 

 

 

did not totally understand this, with the components and interior and such.

 

But I tried to deactivate Edges in Shaded Mode - and it looked much better,

until I zoomed a bit in and out.

What I got (in the worst case) was This, although Edge Display off.

(But maybe you mean something else by "where wall edges should be shown")

 

 

Screenshot_2022-09-16_20_06_49.jpg.ba359355f8361ac5f6ab82bd63a99c83.jpg

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Would be the first I would tell users on the forum if I see such issues.

I thought and checked that too.

But in Top Plan View I see that the Origin is as usual in the

bottom left corner of the Building Grid.

And it looks like the whole geometry will finit in 500x500 m2

 

I will look for any lost elements far away ....

Edited by zoomer
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6 hours ago, JuanP said:

@zoomer Would you mind sharing the 2021 file? I want to send the file for testing with the latest Ventura beta and 2023 - thanks

 

@JuanP has the file already, maybe he can send it over too you too.

 

Will test on Windows 11 with AMD RT 6800 GPU too, but first need to install VW 2023 and such ....

Edited by zoomer
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Strange,

 

It seems like the whole Perspective Mode is corrupt.

(With this file only ? Did not see notice any issues with other files before)

 

If I try to Select one of the Outer Walls by Select+ALT

To a) see that it is really only one Wall  and b) to not select any of the Columns accidentally.

VW Will select the Wall I touch with my Marquee - but as well the Slab that I do not touch !

 

In an Ortho View that Selection issue does not happen ...

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I tried another file, also migrated from Version to Version ...

but one version at a time ....

 

I can't see any issues with artifacts in perspective ....

 

 

But unfortunately I can reproduce the Marquee+ALT Selection issues.

It just looks like the displayed Marquee stays in Ortho Mode while the

geometry is in Narrow Perspective and does not appear where the

orthographic Marquee shows or expects to be ...

 

And this behavior seems to be dependent on the view Zoom Level.

As more as I zoom out (means less perspectivy) the more reliable

the Marquee Selection looks.

Edited by zoomer
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

I see the issues you are seeing with that file we will investigate.  At first I thought you were talking about draw edges showing too much artifacting, but in this file the geometry, shadows, edges, and selection highlighting are all showing artifacts at certain views and zooms.  It behaves as if the geometry is far from origin even if it isn't.  I have it down to just one layer visible and still see the artifacts.

 

 

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And meanwhile I have VW 2023 installed on Windows.

And have to say that the issues with artifacts are temporarily noticeable,

but far less pronounced. I would not really have noticed them.

 

Just the Marquee Selection is also off and unreliable here too.

 

And it looks like is only the Marquee WITH ALT !

Standard Marquee, selecting everything inside only, looks to work

well as expected .....

Edited by zoomer
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2 hours ago, zoomer said:

I tried another file, also migrated from Version to Version ...

but one version at a time ....

 

I can't see any issues with artifacts in perspective ....

 

What scale are your design layers at?

 

Try setting them to 1:1 (if they aren't already) and see if anything changes.

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10 hours ago, line-weight said:

Is this in VW2023? If so that's very disappointing that this is still not fixed. It looks like same issue as here:

 

 

 

I just upgraded to 2022, imagine my disappointment having to suffer thru this after not having such an experience on 2021.  And now this "feature" is in the latest release as well.  And they are switching to a subscription model.  Somebody needs to check the water supply in Maryland.

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They are usually all same 1:50 or 1:100 for larger buildings,

to make it fit on an A0 sheet ...

14 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Anyone running 2023 fancy trying this file to see if the shading artefacts appear?

 

 

Test File_arrayed(1).vwx 14.63 MB · 1 download

 

 

- I opened it and had heavy artifacts.

- I switched off Line Drawing in Shaded - all artifacts disappeared

- I reactivated Lines in Shaded - artifacts did not reappear

 

I just see that you use 1:1 Layer Scale and a 150 crease angle.

(I use default 70, and AFAIR just tried lower values so far)

 

But when heavily Zooming, i will get heavy artifacts again.

Opposite to my file, they get worse when I zoom in ...

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17 minutes ago, zoomer said:

They are usually all same 1:50 or 1:100 for larger buildings,

to make it fit on an A0 sheet ...

 

 

- I opened it and had heavy artifacts.

- I switched off Line Drawing in Shaded - all artifacts disappeared

- I reactivated Lines in Shaded - artifacts did not reappear

 

I just see that you use 1:1 Layer Scale and a 150 crease angle.

(I use default 70, and AFAIR just tried lower values so far)

 

But when heavily Zooming, i will get heavy artifacts again.

Opposite to my file, they get worse when I zoom in ...

 

Yes, I had tried setting a very high crease angle just to demonstrate that setting the crease angle higher does not solve the problem, as had been suggested in that previous thread.

 

I'd like to point out that I raised this issue, and supplied that very test file, exactly one year ago.

 

So the testers at VW have had the possibility of checking for, and observing, this problem for the entire time since then.

 

 

 

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Quoted from another thread, here is a response from @Katarina Ollikainen

 

If the issue is fixed in VW2023 SP2 that of course will be great news.

 

Assume it will never be fixed in VW2022, so 2022 will be a release that I have to skip entirely.

 

In the meantime, fingers crossed.

 

 

On 10/14/2022 at 8:36 PM, Katarina Ollikainen said:

So, I've done a bit of digging in this issue and contacted Justin, who is the Research Manager. 

There are several bugs going on here but the z-fighting has a fix and it will be out in SP2, Nov 9th, unless they find something while going through testing. There's always a caveat.

I know it can be awfully frustrating when basic functions suddenly not behave as you're used to and especially when it is core functions, and it can seem like nothing is happening from our end. Often the engineers are working on solutions but not really discussing them outwards until they have something solid to test.

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On 9/16/2022 at 11:50 PM, line-weight said:

Anyone running 2023 fancy trying this file to see if the shading artefacts appear?

 

 

Test File_arrayed(1).vwx 14.63 MB · 5 downloads

 

 

I have downloaded this file and opened it in vw 2023 at the beginning i was seeing all the same artefacts you were all seeing and speaking of it.

 

What i've done:

 

I found a 2d Locus of a door a bit below the 0,0 origin point, deleted that locus point.

 

Went to Tools - User origin - selected option 3, left the selection at X: 0 and Y: 0 and pressed ok, then i did Tools - User origin - centre drawing on internal drawing.

 

Didn't see the artefacts anymore.

Please download and test it on your machines to double check

Test File_arrayed Fixed_ v2023.vwx

 

Second Test:

 

Opened the same file (downloaded)

Just deleted the locus point mentioned above.

 

Totally fixed the issues

Just opened

SCR-20221106-13c.thumb.png.f3d85989a7c9fdbefbe59c4d7d9565f9.png

 

Where the locus point is

SCR-20221106-13j.thumb.png.e89b8f2edde252e3b14ee7b12510a5e9.png

 

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