Is it possible to use Data Tags to tag objects inside symbols?

[Tom W.]

I can attach Records to objects inside symbols then report on those Records in a database report if I tell it to search inside symbols.

 

But can I get a Data Tag to do something similar + see inside the symbol rather than just see the symbol itself? e.g. if I want to tag the separate objects inside the symbol.

 

I was thinking I could try using the worksheet formula which finds a record inside a symbol in the data tag + see if that worked but then I couldn't figure out what that formula would be...!!

 

So for example, if this is my database report + it is finding the records attached to six objects within a symbol...

 

 

...how would I report the same information but doing it cell by cell within a criteria report? I was looking at FORMATFIELD + OBJECTDATA functions but couldn't get anything to work. 

 

Thanks

[Samuel Derenboim]

I second the request. I would call this something like nested records

[Tom W.]

12 hours ago, Tom W. said:

I was thinking I could try using the worksheet formula which finds a record inside a symbol in the data tag + see if that worked but then I couldn't figure out what that formula would be...!!

 

Ok I've gone back over my notes + realised that you can't use criteria-based functions in a Data Tag so this was never going to work.

 

@Nikolay Zhelyazkov would you be able to confirm that at present there's no way to use a Data Tag to tag an object within a symbol?

 

Thanks

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

Hello @Tom W.,

 

Well, you can put data tags directly inside the symbol to tag its contents, but this is not recommended as it might cause scaling issues of the data tags. However, there are some improvements planned in this direction so this might become a valid and supported workflow in the future.

 

Also, if you make your symbols convert to group on insertion, then there is no problem to add data tags in them as on insertion they get converted to a group and there should not be any scaling issues.

 

As for tagging symbol contents from outside the symbol, I am afraid that this is something that is not possible at this time.

 

Best Regards,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

[Tom W.]

Thanks for getting back to me Nikolay. 

 

Basically the case in point is where I've converted a number of objects - steel beams in this case - into a single hybrid symbol in order to get the desired Top/Plan representation (instead of using Auto Hybrid). So making it a blue Group symbol is not appropriate as I lose the hybrid nature of the object. And I am tagging them in the annotations of a VP so can't enter the symbol to do it anyway.

 

So what I did instead was rather than having the six steel beams contained within a single symbol I created six individual symbols then put them in a Group to keep them all together. Then in a VP the Data Tag can see the individual symbols within the Group. This is fine, it's just often preferable to combine multiple objects into a single symbol rather than create lots of individual symbols.

 

33 minutes ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

Well, you can put data tags directly inside the symbol to tag its contents, but this is not recommended as it might cause scaling issues of the data tags. However, there are some improvements planned in this direction so this might become a valid and supported workflow in the future.

 

33 minutes ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

As for tagging symbol contents from outside the symbol, I am afraid that this is something that is not possible at this time.

 

Would the improvement allow tagging objects inside symbols in viewports or would it need to be done on the design layer?

 

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

7 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Would the improvement allow tagging objects inside symbols in viewports or would it need to be done on the design layer?

The improvements that I was referring to are about tagging inside of symbols directly while in the edit symbol context. So I think that they will not help you much with your case here.

[Mark Aceto]

8 hours ago, Tom W. said:

Basically the case in point is where I've converted a number of objects - steel beams in this case - into a single hybrid symbol in order to get the desired Top/Plan representation (instead of using Auto Hybrid).

 

A friend who's not me wonders if there may be an improved workflow to achieve that desired representation in two weeks... 

[TaylorK]

Has anyone found a workaround for this? We use symbols for our apartment unit layouts and would love to be able to tag the doors and walls in those symbols, but the data tags reset the scale weirdly..

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

7 hours ago, TaylorK said:

Has anyone found a workaround for this? We use symbols for our apartment unit layouts and would love to be able to tag the doors and walls in those symbols, but the data tags reset the scale weirdly..

- In VW 2023 you can use the World Based option in the data tag and tag objects from inside the edit symbol context.

[Marco Zavagno]

HI Nikolay! Do you mean that it is possible to single tag an object inside a symbol? is it possible with multiple objects with records inside one symbol?

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

1 hour ago, Marco Zavagno said:

HI Nikolay! Do you mean that it is possible to single tag an object inside a symbol? is it possible with multiple objects with records inside one symbol?

Hello @Marco Zavagno, You can add multiple data tags in the symbol definition that tag different objects.

[Marco Zavagno]

oh ok I thought it was possible doing it from the design layer or viewport. 

 

Another thing is that tags dont work with referenced in entities. too bad

 

 

[cberg]

Just curious.  Does VW2024 add this functionality?  Playing around with it, and I do not see any changes...

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

On 9/16/2023 at 12:26 AM, cberg said:

Just curious.  Does VW2024 add this functionality?  Playing around with it, and I do not see any changes...

Hello @cberg,

 

If you are asking about tagging objects in symbols from outside of the symbol, this is still not possible. You still have to enter the symbol and add your data tags there.

 

Best Regards,

Nikolay Zhelyazkov

[cberg]

Thank you for your response @Nikolay Zhelyazkov.  It would still be great to implement this feature.  (Tagging objects in symbols from outside the symbol).

[Tom W.]

11 hours ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

You still have to enter the symbol and add your data tags there.

 

Probably fine if you do your tagging on the Design Layer but I am doing it all in VP annotations.

 

If you have symbols inside a Group, and both the Group itself + the symbols inside it have Record attached to them, in a VP you can choose to tag either the Group or the symbols inside. Would it be a massive stretch for the same thing to occur with symbols inside of symbols or is it a completely different kettle of fish?

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

12 hours ago, Tom W. said:

 

Probably fine if you do your tagging on the Design Layer but I am doing it all in VP annotations.

 

If you have symbols inside a Group, and both the Group itself + the symbols inside it have Record attached to them, in a VP you can choose to tag either the Group or the symbols inside. Would it be a massive stretch for the same thing to occur with symbols inside of symbols or is it a completely different kettle of fish?

Symbols are not the same as groups. Symbols are just viewports/pointers/views, or whatever similar term comes to your mind, of the symbol definitions that they refer to. Symbol objects on the drawing do not have any actual graphics in them, they just have a reference to the symbol definition and show it. So basically, if you have 2 symbols instances of a symbol with a rectangle in it, you have the same rectangle displayed twice. And that is why it is not that simple to just tag objects inside symbols.