Floor Fixture Workflow

[spettitt]

Hi there,

 

I would be interested to know how people place moving lights on the floor - i.e. base down, lens up. I seem to have a choice between having them correct in Top/Plan or correct in MVR output.

 

My working so far:

 

Library fixtures are drawn with the input at the bottom, lens facing backwards in 2D symbol editor:

Reflected when editing the 3D Symbol:

If I place a symbol instance in the drawing facing forwards, it obviously defaults to hung position which is fine, the 3D and T/P view are both correct:

However, if I rotate the fixture instance on to it’s base, the 3D is correct but the 2D in T/P points backwards:

I can solve this by inverting the geometry in the 3D symbol, such that the 3D of the symbol is pointing upwards (still with the input facing forwards), and the 2D left unchanged.

Result works well inside of VWX:

But now – Fixtures in MVR files are upside down! Imported to another platform to check. With the input facing forwards:

 

Would be interested to know what others are doing to make this work. We have two variant symbols of each fixture - 'Clamped' and 'Unclamped', it's much better for us than adding clamp accessories for various reasons. Therefore, I don't mind tweaking our 'unclamped' variants to whatever is needed to make this work.

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

[MrTemplate]

i draw two fixtures; both are the same 2D - with "pancake" lighting devices, i draw with the lens facing straight up, [like a big circle.] for 3D, one of the fixtures is "hang", with c-clamps @ 0,0 and the body "underneath." the second version has suffix "FLR", or Floor; fixture flipped, the bottom Z of the base is at 0, but body still has lens pointed down. simpler for me; the 2D doesn't change, the 3D is aligned properly.

[C. Andrew Dunning]

4 hours ago, spettitt said:

I would be interested to know how people place moving lights on the floor - i.e. base down, lens up. I seem to have a choice between having them correct in Top/Plan or correct in MVR output.

 

1)  Create all Lighting Device Symbols using the default of lens-down/bottom hung.  Let Vectorworks control the 3D orientation using the Rotation fields at the top of the OIP.  Use "Custom plan rotation" (toward the bottom of the OIP) to correct any 2D issues.  (Y = 180 - which VW will change to X = 180/Y = 0/Z = 180) will cause floor/top-hung orientation).  This will make things work w. Vision/MVR.
2)  Create separate Symbols for each of your desired orientations - 3D following the above convention and 2D being different for each orientation.  This will make your intent more obvious on your plots.
3)  After your initial Symbols are created, place an instance of each, making orientation/rotation changes as-desired.  Attach Label Legends and enter any default data (like mode).
4)  Create Red Symbols of these instances.
5)  When designing, instead of placing Black Symbols, place your new Red Symbols.  This way, orientions will be pre-set, data will be pre-attached, and Label Legends will be pre-configured.

 

See attached for a simple example.

VanGogh.vwx

[spettitt]

Thanks, that's gotten me further.

 

I now have a red pre-formatted symbol in the RM, which functions well when inserted as an instance. It appears that this is the original Lighting Device symbol wrapped inside of another Lighting Device symbol. Therefore, to edit the actual geometry of the displayed symbol, I need to edit the orginal symbol definition wrapped inside of it, rather than the red symbol, which just has the nested symbol inside. Is that right?

 

The only issue is that when inserting the red symbol, it doesn't use the insertion point of the fixture, but rather a point out on the movement radius, which is frustrating when trying to lay fixtures out.

 

 

Presumably this is because it can't see the insertion point of the nested fixture within the red symbol? Is there any way around this please?

 

Thanks

[C. Andrew Dunning]

3 hours ago, spettitt said:

Therefore, to edit the actual geometry of the displayed symbol, I need to edit the orginal symbol definition wrapped inside of it, rather than the red symbol, which just has the nested symbol inside. Is that right?

 

Correct.  Though, once-placed, you're back to a Symbol wrapped within the Lighting Device container.

 

3 hours ago, spettitt said:

The only issue is that when inserting the red symbol, it doesn't use the insertion point of the fixture, but rather a point out on the movement radius, which is frustrating when trying to lay fixtures out.

 

2 things:

 

Within the Symbol Creation dialog, make sure "Plug-in origin" is selected under "Insertion Point:"

 

 

When inserting Lighting Device Symbols, make sure the last mode is selected:

 

 

[spettitt]

Thanks - I'd gotten the insertion point right, but the mode selection fixed that.

 

Apologies for doing this one to death, but this has raised two other issues:

- This only works when double-clicking the red symbol in the RM (for us, in a Workgroup library folder), but not when navigating to the very same symbol after launching the Lighting Device tool. If placed from the Lighting Device tool, the fixture points down in 3D, but upwards if placed from the RM. Double-clicking in the RM launches in the Symbol Insertion tool instead, and IIRC there are downsides to not using the actual Lighting Device tool, though I can't remember why.

 

Also, within my Lighting Fixtures Library file, I have a folder called '_Floor Fixtures' containing the pre-form versions we've discussed. I then have a 'Source-Ignore' folder for containing the original symbols referenced by the pre-form symbols. However, when using the Lighting Device tool and navigating to the Floor Fixtures folder, it flattens this so both black and red symbols are shown in a list. This makes it risky that someone in the workgroup will place the black symbol rather than red. This smart 'filtering' behaviour of PIO tools where it only shows applicable objects and flattens some folders out - can I turn it off? If not, I could just put 'IGNORE' infront of each black fixture, but I'd quite like to just have the folder...

 

RM:

 

Inside the Lighting Device tool:

 

 

- (Not critical, but still annoying) - The first click now works at the correct insertion point, but the rotation vector for the second click is 90 degrees to the usual vector for a hung fixture - instead of aligned with the lens, it's off to the side. Not a gig-stopper, but frustrating when switching between laying out flown and floor fixtures.

 

Red pre-form floor symbol:

 

Normal hung symbol:

 

Appreciate your help.

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

[C. Andrew Dunning]

3 hours ago, spettitt said:

- This only works when double-clicking the red symbol in the RM (for us, in a Workgroup library folder), but not when navigating to the very same symbol after launching the Lighting Device tool.

 

Correct.  In my workflow, I never use the Lighting Device tool.  All fixture placement is via the Resource Manager.  That way, Red Symbols work and I choose the specific source folder.  (No issues w. a "flattened" structure like you mentioned.)

 

 

3 hours ago, spettitt said:

- (Not critical, but still annoying) - The first click now works at the correct insertion point, but the rotation vector for the second click is 90 degrees to the usual vector for a hung fixture - instead of aligned with the lens, it's off to the side. Not a gig-stopper, but frustrating when switching between laying out flown and floor fixtures.

 

I've not seen that.  Are the instances from which you built the Red Symbols using default orientation?