Power Planning

[Stefan B.]

Hello,

 

I continue my suggestions.

 

13. If you have a truss with a cable on it, snapped properly with the red highlight, the cable stays put if the truss system is moved horizontally.  The red cable lines in image below used to enter the go into center of the truss, as they do when snapped to the truss when placing cables. The designer needed to move many trusses, and all cabling is off, and quite difficult to re-position since changing cables is not able to "tool snap" with the red highlight. The cable tool should be able to adjust the cable with the move as when changing trim to the truss. Most shows do move trusses horizontally in the planning and design phase.

 

[jcogdell]

Thanks for the detailed feedback,

 

On 1/13/2023 at 3:01 PM, Stefan B. said:

The Path tool does not really work for bigger systems(As pointed out earlier in this thread). To snap in and out of the path is troublesome also using the ALT key to better control. The cables out of the path ends up in either end of the path or goes down to the ground, as the "tool snap" to truss or hoist in my case does not work holding down the ALT key.

We are looking for a better solution for this,

 

On 1/13/2023 at 3:01 PM, Stefan B. said:

When i understood the "workarounds" to use the path tool adding cables, it takes me some seconds to click trough the needed steps to ad a cable and VW uses 60 seconds to finish the process of that cable run. Having 60 breakout boxes in my system, it takes a while. As with most functions in VW, they work perfectly in small scale, and has VERY poor performance in a bigger scale.

This shouldn't be happening, can you DM me the file you are seeing this in so I can open a bug report?

 

On 1/13/2023 at 3:01 PM, Stefan B. said:

. There is a fine report function to count all the cable parts in my drawing. But breakouts and other distributors are not included in this count. And as far as i have tried, there is not possible to automate the cable count and have all cables, breakouts and motor controllers on the same sheet. When you first created a nice report, why not include all parts of a system, and why not make it possible for the user to create their own reports that can be updated.

We have a solution for this in the works, we had to delay releasing it with 2023 as it was part of another feature that wasn't ready in time for launch.

 

On 1/13/2023 at 3:01 PM, Stefan B. said:

The distributor symbols, why do they not have a scale to them? It would be great to be able to scale them, so one can make use of them in sheet layer and general documentation for the crew. Since I've first done the job placing the breakouts and the motor controllers, it would be nice to just use those symbols as information on the printed drawing

You should already be able to use them for this, why do you need to be able to scale them?
The reason I'm asking is none of our other plug in objects like lighting devices or truss scale in this way, and I suspect I'm missing something about what you are trying to achieve by scaling the distro's.

 

On 1/13/2023 at 3:01 PM, Stefan B. said:

When having made a system to ease the planning of cables, it would be great to have better functionality to check your work. A function to highlight, select, show units not connected to power, signal or whatever. Then it is possible to verify that you actually have a cable for each unit.

I'll add an enhancement request in for this.

 

On 1/17/2023 at 9:43 AM, Stefan B. said:

It would be great to be able to insert connections to a cable run. As one often want to avoid having connections in vertical cable runs. So it would be awesome to be place connection point along the cable run as needed. Or a checkbox ion the settings, "Place connections in vertical runs: yes/no".

This is already possible, using the cable configuration dialogue. Set the selected parts pane to list all parts and you can then change the order of the cable parts inside the cable run. The end of each part is displayed on the cable object as either a loci or sphere based on your cable style settings.
I think the workflow can definitely be improved though.

 

On 1/17/2023 at 9:43 AM, Stefan B. said:

I cannot speak for all riggers and how they plan, but often we are in a situation when all trusses are in trim, we disconnect the motor controllers and all or most of the ground cable. This makes it very important to have a cable connection as close to the point where the vertical cables becomes horizontal. So we have no cable on ground. Thus it is awesome to insert "connector points"

In my own experience this is a very common way of working. Currently the easiest way to achieve this would be to use the Split tool to create the cable dock or break where you need it so you can remove the controller or ground loom as needed.
 

On 1/17/2023 at 9:43 AM, Stefan B. said:

7. An option for each cable to be able to add them to a cable path or add them to a new cable path. If I made a mistake, or did not add them to a path when first drawn. it would be great to also be able to have the options to add a cable to several paths.

This is an excellent idea, I'll add an enhancement request. Not being able to go back and add or remove cables from a path is a major issue and makes it very hard to revise the cable plan after its first drawn.

 

On 1/17/2023 at 9:43 AM, Stefan B. said:

I made a mistake when drawing a cable between two distributors. I did snap to the distributor but i did not get the red highlight so i only ordinary snapped to the box. I did not see this at first and drew my cable some hundred meters  with several clicks. When i found the error and wanted to "connect" my already drawn cable to the distributor i could not find a way to do this. This would be nice to do, click and drag cable end, to connect to a distributor, or change the distributor.

This is already on the to do list and will be getting addressed as the tools move forwards

 

On 1/17/2023 at 9:43 AM, Stefan B. said:

. When you connect a cable to a distributor, the dialog box that pops up is great. But it could be a bit larger. It is not able to show the complete text and thus difficult to see what is per-selected for me.

A very good point, I'll add this as an enhancement request

 

On 1/17/2023 at 9:43 AM, Stefan B. said:

The  power planning palette does not show me anything. All views and graphs are completely empty.

Are your distro's hooked up to a power supply? the palette only shows objects that have been connected to a supply, anything not displaying in the palette either has not been connected or has a wiring error somewhere between the power supply and the end consumers.

 

On 1/17/2023 at 9:43 AM, Stefan B. said:

11. If one uses the Object Info palette to path the in's and out's of a distributor, specially when making the distributor and connecting all the L's N's and GND's to the correct place. The drop-down and selection could be improved. It is possible to search but not click/select multiple before the drop-down closes. and one have to search scroll and click for each connection. Also, the drop-down does not show what is selected and as you see(image below) the bold is shown in the drop down before clicking, and is not the one selected(with and X). Shift select and CTRL select would be super.

We are looking at a number of ways to improve the process of creating distributors, I'll forward your suggestions on to the team.

 

On 1/17/2023 at 9:43 AM, Stefan B. said:

Visualize cable sag. When a cable is moving in free air, the cable will sag. It would be awesome if this was illustrated. IT would be even better to be able to select the sag and adjust it according to preference.

We already provide the Swag setting in the cable preferences to calculate the extra cable needed to account for cable sag. And this can be further customized by applying separate swag percentages to different parts of your file using the cable area tool.
Why are you wanting to visualize the sag? so you can set individual sag modifiers for each location the cable is sagging or for presentation purposes?

 

[Scott C. Parker]

4 hours ago, Stefan B. said:

The cable tool should be able to adjust the cable with the move as when changing trim to the truss.

This is also on our list of improvements.

Keep these suggestions coming please. They're terrific.

Thanks, Scott

[Stefan B.]

Hey,

 

18 hours ago, jcogdell said:

This shouldn't be happening, can you DM me the file you are seeing this in so I can open a bug report?

I cannot share the file at this point. It can be shared in February when the show is done and aired. But in general, i spend most of my time waiting for vectorworks and it's functions to finish processing.

 

19 hours ago, jcogdell said:

You should already be able to use them for this, why do you need to be able to scale them?
The reason I'm asking is none of our other plug in objects like lighting devices or truss scale in this way, and I suspect I'm missing something about what you are trying to achieve by scaling the distro's.

A rigging point or a hoist is scalable, making it possible to print out a large truss drawing and see all the hoists in the drawing. The trusses normally don't need scaling since they often are the perimeter of you print anyways. But when zoomed far out, and using hoists in scale 1, they disappear inside truss geometry. Then it is useful to be able to scale them. So a zoomed out drawing the hoists is scaled up, and on close ups, they can be scaled down. For a rigger on the way to cable the system, one would like to show where to place the breakouts and where to drop cables on each truss. For one truss, you can make a zoomed window on your sheet layer, but for 60 break-outs this is too much for a one page print. And yes, it is very important to keep the paperwork as light as possible. As far as i see it is possible to scale the Electrical Components, but not the finished  Distributor object. Naturally i can redraw the 2D representation in a bigger scale, but this removes the possibility for quickly to change things and having different scales for the same objects depending on density and zoom.

 

19 hours ago, jcogdell said:

In my own experience this is a very common way of working. Currently the easiest way to achieve this would be to use the Split tool to create the cable dock or break where you need it so you can remove the controller or ground loom as needed.

This absolutely work, but it would be great to be able to click on cables and make connection points. It is then important they are editable and clearly visible. So one easily can see there is a connection and also easily can delete or edit it.

 

19 hours ago, jcogdell said:

Are your distro's hooked up to a power supply? the palette only shows objects that have been connected to a supply, anything not displaying in the palette either has not been connected or has a wiring error somewhere between the power supply and the end consumers.

This should be much clearer in the tutorials or even if the power planning palette is empty how about a "No power units found, have you connected a power supply to your system?" And i suggest this function to be revised. Often i plenty about my own system and my least worry is how, and what power supply i connect to. I'm more interested that i do have the needed parts and necessary distribution. I do understand why it is built like this, but i would suggest adding a, "connect to fictive power supply" button.

 

19 hours ago, jcogdell said:

We already provide the Swag setting in the cable preferences to calculate the extra cable needed to account for cable sag. And this can be further customized by applying separate swag percentages to different parts of your file using the cable area tool.
Why are you wanting to visualize the sag? so you can set individual sag modifiers for each location the cable is sagging or for presentation purposes?

Yes, i have seen that the sag is calculated, but it is not shown. A straight line might not interfere with another truss, video screen or projector, other visible elements, but when the cable is sagging it might interfere. And some times you need to actually show this to other people. Since one has spent time drawing a cable it do seem contra productive to draw another arc, give it some color and thickness to show the interference.

 

 

 

[MValerio]

I am working to implement the power planning tools into my work flow but when I go to view the device graph, there are a bunch of other loads that are not connected to anything that just clutters up the screen. How do I eliminate the clutter 

[Scott C. Parker]

14 hours ago, MValerio said:

How do I eliminate the clutter 

Try this, Right Click in the window and choose Reload.
If that doesn't work, save, close, and reopen the file.
You should be good to go. This is a known issue on our list.

[marcuswimmer]

Treefers between lights and plugboxes.

Numbering behavior when using treefers between the plug box and the lighting fixtures.

I was trying to plug a common situation to get all parts in VW listet, cables, plugboxes and including the count of treefers I would need.

The following scenario:

1 truss with one plugbox feeded from a distribution with a HAN16 (6Ch power).

12 lighting fixtures and always two of them get on one socket of the plugbox with a treefer to combine them.

so virtually i plug the treefer in the socket and the lights in the treefer.

Now the point:

I labeled the plugbox with an ID (i.e. LX1.A) and I didn't label the treefer with any name or ID cause they are carried somehow and not needed to be sorted.

And the main point here is it would take a lot of time to name all of the treefers and make the naming much more difficult.

The fixture takes the ID from the treefer and the socket information from the plugbox ist lost in the fixture label/database cause I didn't name the treefer.

 

Would it be possible to pass the naming thru to the fixture as long anything in between has no ID/name?

So the last entered ID will be shown at the fixture down the row.

 

If anyone with an idea to solve or a workaround this is very welcome!

Thanks a lot!

[derandii]

Hello - when changing the cable sequence and or cable parts I always need 2 attempts. exactly the same procedure works only the 2nd time - why ?

[Stig Runar]

Why doesnt powerconsumption go up when i use daisychain mode on say 6 fixtures? I need to distribute to each light to get the correct consumtion.

[Scott C. Parker]

1 hour ago, Stig Runar said:

Why doesnt powerconsumption go up when i use daisychain mode on say 6 fixtures?

At the moment, a fixture doesn't know it has an output. Therefore, it doesn't relay the power consumption from the fixtures after the first one. It's a known issue and is on our list. Your solution of running all the units to the distro is a good one for the time being.

[Juay]

Hi all, does the power planning workflow work for the tools in Event design toolset like Video Screen or LED Screen?

or does it work exclusively with lighting and custom symbol(as distributor) with consumer component in it?

[Scott C. Parker]

18 hours ago, Juay said:

toolset like Video Screen or LED Screen

Not really. You would need to replace the objects placed by the tools with actual symbols, which also need to add an electrical consumer component. To fake it, you would place a small symbol with a consumer component at each video projector/LED location and connect the cable.

[Juay]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:45 PM, Scott C. Parker said:

Not really. You would need to replace the objects placed by the tools with actual symbols, which also need to add an electrical consumer component. To fake it, you would place a small symbol with a consumer component at each video projector/LED location and connect the cable.

Hi Scott,

 

Thanks. I see where this is going

so I have an LED wall with multiple circuits, I will have to plant multiple consume objects with the total wattage for each circuit in the said symbol to simulate it?

[Scott C. Parker]

@Juay, You're on the right track. 

If you repeatedly use LED walls with similar power needs, you could make a fake consumer object and convert it to a symbol. You'd then place it whenever you place an LED wall. So, if your wall needs five 20Amp circuits, you'd place five symbols and patch them to your distro. 

Hmmm. Now that I typed this out, I have a thought. You could use a lighting unit... Take a lighting symbol, rename it "LED Wall Power Input," and edit its record and geometry; so it doesn't look like a light. It'll end up on the lighting paperwork. Your lighting electrician might like it 🙂

[kevin.hayward]

It would be great if the power palette didn't require a power supply at all. I'm drawing rigging. I only care about stuff on the truss. Anything on the ground is SEP.

For me, the ABSOLUTE priority is the lights. Truss, cabling, power supply all come later, after the lighting has been set.

It would be really useful to be able to view/edit a schematic of the lights, distros and cables on a truss. Especially if I could connect distros and lights in the schematic, and number the cables there and then, rather than feeling forced to number as I go.

 

Which brings me to another point, not entirely specific to power planning but an irritation nonetheless. Why does VW work differently when defining cables?

If I select the 'Cable' tool and click on distro/light, the cable snaps to the hanging position. If I use the OIP and use the drop downs to select light instrument inputs, the cable doesn't snap to the hanging position. OTOH, the first two-click method isn't easily editable. If you move the distros on the truss, the cables don't update. The cable still connects to the truss at the same point, which means extra cable being drawn as the cable goes from the distro, PAST the light instrument, connects to the truss, then BACK to the lighting instrument. Why don't automatically placed cables update automatically as well?

 

Talking of the 'Distributor Object' OIP, why doesn't it reflect the selected connections properly? I scroll down to the drop downs, select a lighting instrument, then the OIP completely redraws, meaning I have to scroll down AGAIN to the drop downs. And the drop downs?  Would it really be THAT hard to sort the drop-down entries?

 

And if you switch between distros, the OIP redraws completely. Which would be fine, except the Power Source drop downs don't change to reflect the values for the newly selected distro. They reflect the previous selection. Why? The OIP should reflect EXACTLY the status of an object, surely?

[Amy C.]

I have a breakout distributor object that I want to draw output lengths. I attached a Cable Distributor Record to the symbol with lengths for each output of the breakout, added the distributor of that symbol, but when I click the draw output lengths box in the OIP nothing happens. Is this a bug or is there another way I need to specify the lengths of my outputs to see them?

[jcogdell]

@Amy C. this is a known issue and on the list to be addressed.

[mbuchan]

Hi All,

 

I would dearly love it if Vectorworks could do this for me... Calculate all the XXX's.

I have to do this by hand (calculator, or excel in reality) as its kind of required (a plan)here in the UK (but often ignored).

I was hoping the power graph would get there, and I think it has the ability.

Thoughts?

MattySingle Line One line wishlist.pdfSingle Line One line wishlist.pdf

[Stig Runar]

Like Stefan mentioned earlier:

Is it a bug or a feature that you cant see what a pdu is connected to? you need to click the dropdown to see where it is Xed.

Same problem when you are creating a distributer, you cant see if L1 is connected or not if you dont click the dropdown.

[Scott C. Parker]

@kevin.hayward, @mbuchan, and @Stig Runar. We're not ignoring you, 🙂. Your comments are valid, and I've added them to our list of needed improvements. You also have questions peppered in there, for which, unfortunately, I don't have answers that will currently solve them.  

[Leonarddel]

Hello All,

I think I might be late to the party here, I just started tinkering with this and I'm hitting a brick wall. First like Braceworks does this tool need a separate license? I started a simple model 1 Distributor and a single connection to a fixture (JDC1) from there it kinda ends for me. 

I tried Power Patch Selected Objects pop up window said Successfully Patched 0 Devices 
Next was the Power Patch Position That didn't reflect any results
The Power Planning Sheet didn't show any info or connections

This all makes me think there is a separate license???

I have used the "Whats This?" in the help command and it helps for what the tools are but not much of what the steps are to achieving results or steps in order to take like should I place fixtures before Distributors, cabling and boxes? Below is a screen shot of my simple test model:

Thanks 

Hi Scott!

[Scott C. Parker]

Hi Leonard, good to see you.

15 hours ago, Leonarddel said:

I just started tinkering with this and I'm hitting a brick wall. First like Braceworks does this tool need a separate license?

No, not a separate license. 
Brick walls aplenty unless you follow very specific workflows and have things just right. Have you watched the training videos in the university? 

 

15 hours ago, Leonarddel said:

I tried Power Patch Selected Objects pop up window said Successfully Patched 0 Devices 

Can you post the file? Is the JDC1 a lighting fixture? Does it show the power info at the bottom of the OIP?

15 hours ago, Leonarddel said:

Power Patch Position That didn't reflect any results

Only works if both the position name and location fields are all the same. Try adding a breakout between the distro and the light. The screenshot doesn't look like you have the light attached to a position.

You'll also need a power source (generator) for anything to show in the power web palette.

 

Best, Scott

[Leonarddel]

@Scott C. Parker

Here you go,

I did locate the training videos and was happy to see there were some, However I get an error saying Can't self enrol that was my first dead end.

The JDC1 is from the VW default library ( I didn't want to use any custom symbols yet so I went to the default Lib.) It does have Power Info at the bottom but it says it takes Edison.

Power Web Palette worked out after putting in a source, The light needs to be attached to a position? What if it is just sitting on a stage?

Distribution Test.vwx

[jcogdell]

On 7/28/2023 at 11:37 PM, Leonarddel said:

I tried Power Patch Selected Objects pop up window said Successfully Patched 0 Devices 

The power patch selected only works when you have a breakout and lights selected.

 

 

34 minutes ago, Leonarddel said:

I did locate the training videos and was happy to see there were some, However I get an error saying Can't self enrol that was my first dead end.

Have you created a user account at the university?

[Leonarddel]

@jcogdell

I think I better get this University thing going before attempting anymore with this tool I still get 0 fixtures Patched and there are a lot of things I click in the OIP that don't do anything. Isn't the University included with service select? It does say I'm logged in.