willofmaine

Thank you Pat, that is all very helpful. I've been looking at Vectorscript out of a fear that Marionette's issues stem from Python. But maybe it's safe to say that they don't, and that Marionette is dysfunctional on its own? I've heard of Pascal before (and there you have a synopsis of my experience with it...). Not sure I really followed your last paragraph; it sounds like Python isn't perfect, but I will check it out. Thanks! -Will

I'm so frustrated with the instability of Marionette, that I find myself looking in these Vectorscript and Python forums, though I don't know what the difference between the two is or which might be best for creating parametric objects (or plugins?). I think Python is used for Marionette? I like the "approachable" graphical interface of Marionette - the colorful nodes and connecting 'em with wires is fun - along with its ability to (sometimes) create extremely useful objects. But if only it worked more often than not...

That worked great in the file that I sent you! But not so much in my original file (attached).... When I changed the "s" to an "i" in the file that I sent you, I got a dialogue box about a "REFFILE keyword" (see screenshot in attached file) to which I said "Yes." When I went to update the node in my original file, the "s" had already been replaced with the "i" (which I assume has to do with the "REFFILE" thing...). But the network failed... Ultimately, I found that if I copied the node that I'd originally modified and used that, the network would succeed and generate the expected solid. The attached file displays the steps I went through. It also includes a screenshot of a warning that I frequently get. And I've noticed that the Scale Symbol node has a red gradient in the RM, but in the file it's just white... don't know if that's significant. VWIS219 Thanks! Will 05-Scale Symbol Node-02.vwx

When I use the "Solid Boolean" node to try and combine two symbols, one of which is scaled, as a solid addition, it doesn't work. If neither symbol is scaled, a solid addition is generated as expected. See attached. How are scaled symbols added together with Marionette? Thanks! 03-Add Scaled Symbols-02.vwx

I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to make a rendered viewport grayscale... this did the trick. Thanks!

Wow, looks like I first encountered this issue (VWIS008) in 2013: Currently, the problem seems to occur after editing a 2D symbol on a design layer. @GWS said "The whole Layer/Screen Plane issue has never really been resolved, it's so far behind other CAD programs. Even the less expensive end of the market has this sorted. It is basic structure like this that is holding VW back in the market, and indeed from the user point of view." And that was in 2013!!! EIGHT YEARS LATER and we're still struggling with Layer Plane, Working Plane, Screen Plane, Screen Aligned, Symbol Definition, 3D, Extrude Along Path. Holy cow!!! In the meantime, could we PLEASE have a REAL & PERSISTENT ability to select "Working Plane Only" in the Plane Mode options of Document Preferences?!?!? Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! VWIS008

The beauty of Styles was that you could have, say, sixteen different window Types (different sizes, different operations), as symbols, all using the same Style. Then, if you wanted to change, say, the trim width for ALL of the windows in a project, you could do so globally via the Style. To use Styles like symbols (as I think you're suggesting) defeats that beauty entirely, as it would then be necessary to update all 16 window styles in order to change the trim width. I've just tried adding Tags inside the symbols - one in plan and one in 3D for each symbol. Works fine for the Floor Plan drawings, but the most I can get to show up in an Elevation (Section) Viewport is the hexagon, and not the text, even with "Display Text and Markers" selected. Worksheets and the Modification and Selection tools can find things in symbols; I wish Data Tags could too.

How do I make data tags recognize window PIOs that are inside of symbols? Thanks.

Hmm... I have my RM just floating on a separate, small monitor, always visible... Also, speaking of the RM, thumbnails seem wonky. Often after editing a resource, its thumbnail either disappears (blank white) or changes to some scale that's not especially meaningful. Textures sometimes seem to be represented just by a black-to-gray gradient.

I wish it wasn't necessary to scroll down to "Locate Symbol in Resource Manager" when right-clicking on a symbol that's too close (which isn't very close) to the bottom of the drawing area (because the pop-up context menu doesn't simply shift up to be entirely visible). VWIS066 (2016) I wish it wasn't often (or always?) necessary to right-click on a symbol and select "Locate Symbol in Resource Manager" TWICE before it's actually highlighted in the Resource Manager. And currently I'm trying out the "dark mode" thing, and finding that the highlighting, once activated, is barely visible anyway (but maybe there's a setting for that that I'm not aware of). Either way, really wish it wasn't necessary to have to always go through the symbol locating process twice. VWIS180

Why do I keep losing the ability to access a window's settings? There's no response double-clicking on a window, right-clicking on its style in the RM, or clicking on Settings in the OIP. It seems to start - inconsistently - when working in a window's symbol. The only solution seems to be closing and reopening the file. Not super efficient having to constantly close and reopen the file in order to work with windows.

Why has Vectorworks recently taken up reverting to Screen Plane? I'm finding every third thing I do is wrong because I think I'm working in Layer Plane mode, in 3D, no need for screen plane, don't WANT screen plane, but it just keeps randomly deciding that Screen Plane is right for me. It's NOT!!!!!!!!!!! I KEEP telling the software, in Document Preferences > Plane Mode that I want "Working Plane Only." Repeatedly. Over and over. Why can't I, as the user, decide which plane mode I want to work in??? Am I missing something? Probably... after several days of fighting with Marionette my patience for VWDW is pretty limited...

So are you saying that nodes that worked in previous versions of Vectorworks no longer work with 2021?...

@m.graf and @AlanW : Here's what I wanted to accomplish (attached VW file). It's used for creating curved slopes when working with DTMs. For example a curved swale that wants to have a constant slope. Or even the edges of a walkway with a complex shape, in which case the 2D plan of the walkway can be converted to a NURBS and used to replace the control geometry. A stake object can optionally be used to find the high and low points at each end according to the DTM, and then, either way, the high and low points can be entered in the OIP. The slider (thanks to @sbarrett's "Festoon" strings compliments of Alan) makes it easy to adjust the number of points along the curve; additional points can be added if desired (beyond the slider's limit of 25). The final step is to snap a 3D polygon to the points and use that as source data for the DTM. The 2D path stays down at Z=0 which is fine; it makes it easier to see and snap to the points. Thanks for your help! 06-3D Points along Curve-2.4.0.1.vwx

I think I got it working! Hopefully someday Marionette PIO fields themselves will be reportable in worksheets, both for simplicity and so that we can have two-way functionality. In the meantime, Thanks Pat!

Thanks Pat! I'll take a look at those.

I just gave it a go with the "Set Record Field" node, but no luck. Can you point me in any particular direction for how one goes about storing the values?... Thanks!

Is it possible to report on the OIP (input) fields for a Marionette object in a worksheet? I can't seem to find a way... @Pat Stanford?

@Don Seidel Good, so it's not just me that has stumbled big time with an inability to navigate in TM. The "dinosaur tech at snail speed" doesn't bother me too much partly because (at least 'til now...) I just didn't know any better, and partly because I preview my Renderworks renderings at very low resolution and final renderings are *relatively* quick (minutes vs. the hours of years bygone). Though it looks like now we're talking seconds (if that...) instead of minutes... Based on quick glimpses at their websites, Redshift and Octane look interesting. I kinda feel like, at least for me, TM has just been a glimpse into the near future. New to TM, I don't know anything other than the Datasmith transfer method, which worked surprisingly well when I imported my Vectorworks model. But then (even with the "SketchUp" option) I spent three minutes just trying to orbit my model...

@zoomer & @jeff prince I looked into Blender a little (so I even have a sense of it's two rendering engines! - though I didn't know Cycles + Mac GPU isn't a thing...) and Blender sure does look pretty involved... so no big boy pants for me; and not looking to get involved with the monster of a software that it sounds like Unreal Engine is. Especially because, after I duke it out with Vectorworks, I'm able to create very respectable renderings, without even leaving the software. The appeal of Twinmotion - it's extreme simplicity - seems to be it's downfall: it's too simple to even accommodate a second option for orbit control! (((I just found a response to my question at the Twinmotion Forum, and someone suggested switching the Navigation from Twinmotion to something else - for the "SketchUp" option only the middle mouse button (without shift) is necessary, and that seems to prevent the random zooming problem. It's still difficult to activate, but it does seem to help quite a lot; so maybe there's hope after all...))).

So... are there any good alternatives to Twinmotion for working with Vectorworks on a Mac? You know, ideally something only a little more complicated than Twinmotion... complicated enough to have different user interface options, such as, in particular, more than one way to orbit...

I had no idea! That's great! I just experimented with a couple of Kohler sinks; the first one wouldn't convert, but I was surprised, the second one did! Excellent.

@jeff prince Thanks for that tip; I don't think I'd seen that specifically mentioned anywhere. But even when I make sure an object is selected, the problem persists.

After looking at the Twinmotion forum, I've found that reducing my quality settings to "low" keeps the fans quiet. I tried "medium" and the fans were quiet, but that was only for a minute or so. It seems odd that a software that I would think needs to be all about efficiency just seemingly randomly works at hundreds of frames per second, even for still images, and that it puts full demand on resources even for one or two simple objects. Not that any of that necessarily matters because, sadly, the inability to orbit makes it pretty much an unusable software...

I only have what I think is a reasonable sense of what Twinmotion can do. It certainly looks very cool and very capable. But beyond that UnReal Engine, Epic, and the gaming environment are all a mystery to me. I downloaded Twinmotion for a trial run, and ran into some frustrating issues: 1.) I could barely get the middle button on the mouse to orbit and pan as expected. Sometimes it would work, but more often it wouldn't. Often when holding down the shift key and the middle button in an effort to orbit, instead I'd find the model approaching or receding. I restarted the software and the computer a couple of times, and I tried a different mouse, none of which helped. 2.) Also, my fans kept revving up, even though I'd imported very simple geometry, and even when I wasn't actively doing anything. On the one hand, maybe that's to be expected with realtime rendering? On the other hand, when I do heavy-duty Vectorworks renderings, I don't hear my fans at all. Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Thanks! Will