thanks for your help, after much messing around, i finally got the shape i required by drawing completely new using nurbs. However, ive done one duct, but i need a further 3.... I tried repeating the process, but just when i get the path perfect in one view, when i switch to the other to edit it there, the whole thing gets distorted. Im having majorly trouble trying to control the nurbs shape, even when using the different constraints