RonMan

I just received it. The only two things I can say now are that it weighed less than I expected, but it did not move around while I played with it. The second is that SteerMouse recognizes all the buttons, and the jog wheel and spinner speed can be adjusted. Some cute stickers for the keys come with it. They look cheap and may not be easily replaced. We will see. I have a small design project I can use it on. I now need to work on a different, non-drafting project with a deadline. I should have an update tomorrow.

This thread has been going on for a while. I have a new toy to add to the discussion. The Shuttle Pro V.2. from Contour Design. You can find it on Amazon. I am going to get one to try out. It is a lot less expensive than anything from 3DConnexion. It's best to use SteerMouse on macOS. I can't help Windows users.

The DebugModule_5.txt file is not present in my /tmp folder. I put DebugModule back in Plug-in Folder. The load paused for over 30 seconds to load it. I removed it by putting it in the main. VW24 folder. I then flushed the VW24 cache. The slow parts were Rivet and Cineware. The load was significantly faster without DebugModule. I will set up timed tests tomorrow and send you the results.

I have looked at DebugModule loading on my M1 Ultra Mac Studio and M2 MacBook Air. I can see DebugModule loading when it is in the Plug-ins folder. If I move it out of the Plug-ins folder (not deleting), DebugModule does not load. I can move the module in and out of the Plug-in folder and see it on either system. I can screen-record if that will help Cineware takes a long time on both systems.

Removing DebugModule from Plug-ins made a big difference in start-up time. I don't know the long-term impact of removing DebugModule, but I worked on a project for a few hours, and I had no problems. On macOS I moved it from the Plug-ins folder to the may VW2024 folder.

Thank you for updating the VW24 icons.

I have noticed the following when loading VW24: DebugMode is loaded and takes a very long time (why is this being loaded at all) Revit Library takes a while to load (this may be OK) Cineware takes the longest to load I run an M1 Mac Studio Ultra with 128 GB memory and 1TB storage. The load time is much slower than VW23. The most significant differences are above. I don't understand why DebugMode needs to be loaded at all. I do not have this in production, but your question is valid. If I get time, I may remove the DebugMode module to see what happens. I hope someone from VW will chime in.

Based on what I have, Apple is on the right track with its recommendations. I have a Mac Studio M1 Ultra with 128 GB memory and 1 TB storage. I have not encountered any memory problems, even when running VW 23 and VW24 together. Renderings are fast. I have never run out of memory, and the system has never done page-outs. I suspect this system will last until the M5s come out or longer. I purchased this system expecting it to last for five years. I also have a 15" M2 MacBook Air. This is also a great system, but it only has 24 GB of memory. I have not used it extensively with VW23 or VW24, but it has performed well when I have needed to make a quick edit or render an image or two. I have used all the memory, and it did page. I recommend a Mac Studio with as much memory as you can afford. The more, the better. Storage is based on your needs, but 1 TB is fine. You can add external storage as needed.

I no longer have an issue with returning to my Mac Studio and all the windows are on one screen. 12.5 fixed the problem.

I go away for tea or a bio break and four times so far I come back and all my windows are on one screen. I am unable to figure out why. I use Moom, with one click everything is back where it belongs. If I find the source I will post.

OK, I finally received my Mac Studio: Model Identifier: Mac13,2 Chip: Apple M1 Ultra Total Number of Cores: 20 (16 performance and 4 efficiency) Memory: 128 GB System Firmware Version: 7459.121.3 OS Loader Version: 7459.121.3 Type: GPU Bus: Built-In Total Number of Cores: 64 Metal Family: Supported, Metal GPUFamily Apple 7 1TB SSD It replaced my MacBook Pro: Model Name: MacBook Pro Model Identifier: MacBookPro15,1 Processor Name: 6-Core Intel Core i9 Processor Speed: 2.9 GHz Number of Processors: 1 Total Number of Cores: 6 L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB L3 Cache: 12 MB Hyper-Threading Technology: Enabled Memory: 32 GB System Firmware Version: 1731.120.10.0.0 (iBridge: 19.16.15071.0.0,0) OS Loader Version: 540.120.3~6 eGPU with Radeon Pro WX 7100 pro First, the performance difference is amazing for everything, including VectorWorks. One of my favorite graphics tests is to grab a model in 3D and spin it as fast as I can with my 3DConnexion SpaceMouse. On the Intel system the eGPU turned into a jet engine but did spin pretty well. On the Mac Studio Ultra it was a blur and I used only 17% or the GPU and 39% of memory. The CPU was around 10%. I never heard a sound. The AC in my office is way louder. This was hardly a scientific test, but it was the same model in VW 2022 I used on the Intel MacBook Pro. Thus far everything is faster. I have larger models I need to work on, but for the moment the Mac Studio is perfect. I have my system for the next five years.

On a Mac use SteerMouse to program everything but the color changing. The Synapse 2 software will leave you frustrated. S2 works great on Windows.

I used to own the KET. I loved it, but not for graphics. Back then I used in with FreeHand and Illustrator. My fingers got tired when working on fine details. If you use it for VW, and it works, then good for you. You have a solution. The problem is all solutions are rather personal, but the more we put out there the better for the young person that started this thread.

The original Logitech MX was a favorited until is stopped working and they stopped supporting it. The Master 3 is good if you don't want a lot of buttons. I love shortcuts, so for me the more buttons the better. If my hand can never leave the mouse, I am so much faster, and I don't have to memorize all the shortcuts. Good mouse.

Ray, You have opened a can of worms. There are many mice that may work, but finding one that may work for you can be tricky. I explored many gaming mice, (more buttons) before landing on two. The Logitech G700s work particularly well on my Mac (Big Sur), but just doesn’t have enough buttons for CAD work. I then found the Razer Nagra Trinity. Here things get complicated. The mouse has three replaceable button panels. The two button panel works fine for general non-CAD work, but has two too few buttons. I can use it day to day, but I like the Logitech better. I used the circular panel with seen button. Loved it until VW2021, then I went wild. The twelve button panel is the bomb. Yes, it takes time to get the buttons the way you want and then manage the muscle memory, but having twelve to fourteen buttons available really speeds up the work flow. I keep both connected and just grab the one I need for what I am doing. There is almost no lag switching, because I only use the Razr for Vectorworks. On a Mac you need SteerMouse for either brand to assign buttons for various apps. On Windows you have to use either the Logitech software or the Razor software. I have not heard good things about them for CAD work but you can control the colors on the Razer if that a matters too you. I also have a 3DConnexion Navigator. It is rather handy, but the beta driver on Big Sur is still buggy. PM me if you have questions. Thanks, Ron

No problems on my end. I have been using them together for many months now.

A corrupt file can cause this problem too. In VW2008(?)) it happened so often we published methods to recover your file to stop the crashing. I have not seen the problem in years, but perhaps your file has a problem. Import it into a blank file and see if that helps. Also, all the mobile GPUs can have problems when they get short on memory, for any reason. Istat Menus is the tool I use to check on my GPU. I purchased an eGPU and added an AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100. It is FAST, and has made my system much more stable for both VW and other graphic stuff I do. (I am also a photographer)

It looks like you ran out of virtual memory. I didn't spend much time on the crash dump, but memory is the problem. I could be physical or virtual, but the exception happened when trying to expand virtual memory beyond the allocated memory. How much memory do you have on your system and in your GPU?

The monitors do not have speakers or cameras. I got better monitors at a lower price because of it. I use an external speaker at my desk and the camera on my laptop when I need to do Zoom or Skype. I have a OWC Thunderbolt 3 doc that I use for just a couple of things. I only use it for GB Ethernet and my SpyderX. There are 4 extra USB ports if I need them. I could put a camera on it. Everything else goes to the eGPU, Razor Core X Chroma; two mice and my 3Dconnexion Space Mouse. I have a Logitech G700s for normal use, and a Razor Naga Trinity for VW. I program the mice with the SteerMouse preference panel. I did not choose the BlackMagic eGPU based on cost and comments from others. The Core X Chroma is great, but the GB Ethernet port does not work well on Windows, and not at all on a Mac. I decided to keep it after getting everything set up. I already had GB Ethernet from the OWC dock. The AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100 came up because it was supported and AMD recommended it for VW (on Windows, but who cares about Windows). I would have had to spend another $300-500 to get a better card from AMD. You saw the performance in my previous post. I'm doing OK. One thing I did learn, you can get battery swelling if you use your system with a dock most of the time. I got the battery replaced (three days without a computer–it was hell). Now I have it on a laptop stand that has a USB fan underneath. I found it at Fry's or Staples years ago. This is a great use for something that to gather dust previously. The temperature of my MacPro is down 5-10 degrees. The battery should not swell again. There is a 34 TB NAS in the cabinet along with a UPS for it. My wife might disagree, but this is a simple layout. The monitor you might consider is the Dell UltraSharp 27 4K Monitor: U2718Q. It comes in a 30 inch version as well. A webcam is $50, and you likely have speakers laying around somewhere. I recommend you try Geekbench to see what kind of performance you get in different setups.

In daisy chain mode, as shown, the Mac GPU would be hard pressed to keep up. If the daisy chain has the eGPU before the MacBook, you would get all gate benefits of the eGPU. I think that is the ideal configuration. If you can't daily chain, there is a way to make the eGPU primary in System Preferences. Go to Displays/ Arrangement and make sure the menu bar is on the display from the eGPU. You won't need to change the setting in Get Info. When you use the system by itself, the internal GPU will take over, but whenever you use the eGPU, you will get the eGPU performance by default. The only time I use the internal GPU is when I am traveling. Otherwise, I drive everything from the Radeon Pro WX7100. Here are some test results Using GeekBench 5.01, OpenCL test 40,336 AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100 Compute Engine, eGPU 13141 AMD Radeon Pro 560X Compute Engine, internal Using GeekBench 5.01, Metal test 45,878 Radeon Pro WX 7100 Compute Engine, eGPU 14,031 AMD Radeon Pro 560X Compute Engine, internal The difference is easy to see when using VW. Both monitors are Dell UP2716D models. They have excellent color. The resolutions are 2560 x1440. There is an equivalent 4K model. Of course it costs more. I think that is all I have. Forgive and spelling for grammar errors. I slapped this together in just a few minutes. I did run the GeekBench tests again for this.

It took me a moment to get your setup. One monitor is directly connected to your Mac while the other is on the eGPU. Yes, that will cause a problem depending on where you have the control bar in the Display/Arrangement setting in System Preferences. If at all possible put both monitors on the GPU and set the control bar on one of the eGPU monitors. You can determine what is running where by using System Activity and selecting the GPU tab. You can then see what is running where. I hope this helps.

Ten minutes ago I had the first crash I have had in days. I use the Razor Chroma X eGPU and the Radeon WX7100. This is a very good combination, but make sure your monitors can handle display port. If they cannot consider a different card in the WX series. The less and greater models feature mini-display port. The faster one is not worth the money in my view, and the slower one does not have the power. Note the Radeon WX series are workstation cards, not gaming cards. I would NEVER use a gaming card for CAD work. The optimizations are totally different. The crash-dump is not as clear about the cause. There was a EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGEGV) fault. These are usually a code errors. It looks like VW tried to access something that was no longer there. I was designing a space craft (don't ask), changed views to move something, touched it, and boom! The object was real but VW lost track of it. I won't say I have never lost an object while programming, but I usually can find and fix it. The problem VW has is they have no idea which object I created, or where it was. Either the rendering engine or the user interface lost track of the object. After all that BS, I still believe the Razor and the Radeon WX7100 are a great combination. I did have to get rid of my Apple Thunderbolt displays (I loved them, but they are old and available in Dallas). I would like to hear from others on which eGPU and card they are using. I think the Mac Pro would kick ass, but I don't have the cash to buy a used Ferrari, let alone that rocket.

Which graphics card are you using? I have the Radeon Pro WX-7100 and everything is fine. I would check your memory when using VW. Istats Menu lets you see what the GPU is doing. I also have an i9 in my MacBook Pro 15"

I chose the Razor Chroma X. It has GB Ethernet and four USB ports . To get two FireWire ports I would have spent another $300. I didn’t see the value.

I have added the eGPU since this update. What a huge difference. The card is an AMD Radeon Pro WX7100. Both the faster and slower cards in the series use mini-display port connectors. The immediate impact is all visualizations. I can crank OpenGL settings to the moon and still move smoothly. I changed the setting on my 3DConnexion mouse because the card is so much faster. I also crash less often. The built-in graphics card does not have enough memory to handle complex renderings. Once it is full you either quit Vectorworks for a while, or wait for VW to crash and quit VW for a while. memory does not clear quickly from the graphics card. Use istat Menus to see what your GPU is doing. I did change my monitors. I now use two DELL UP2716D monitors. My Thunderbolt displays are for sale in the Dallas area. Note: If I had chosen a different AMD card I could have kept the Thunderbolts monitors.They cannot be used with a full-size display port to mini-display port adaptor. The new monitors calibrate extremely well with my datacolor SpyderX. They do lack speakers–not an issue. I do not regret changing monitors. The color gamut is much better and they have excellent uniformity. (I do photo editing) Radeon Pro WX 7100: Chipset Model: Radeon Pro WX 7100 Type: External GPU PCIe Lane Width: x4 VRAM (Total): 8 GB Vendor: AMD (0x1002) Device ID: 0x67c4 Revision ID: 0x0000 Automatic Graphics Switching: Supported gMux Version: 5.0.0 Metal: Supported, feature set macOS GPUFamily2 v1 GPU is Removable: Yes Displays: DELL UP2716D: Resolution: 2560 x 1440 (QHD/WQHD - Wide Quad High Definition) UI Looks like: 2560 x 1440 @ 59 Hz Framebuffer Depth: 30-Bit Color (ARGB2101010) Display Serial Number: KV97096J195L Main Display: Yes Mirror: Off Online: Yes Rotation: Supported Automatically Adjust Brightness: No Connection Type: DisplayPort DELL UP2716D: Resolution: 2560 x 1440 (QHD/WQHD - Wide Quad High Definition) UI Looks like: 2560 x 1440 @ 59 Hz Framebuffer Depth: 30-Bit Color (ARGB2101010) Display Serial Number: KV97096J183L Mirror: Off Online: Yes Rotation: Supported Automatically Adjust Brightness: No Connection Type: DisplayPort