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Stéphane

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Posts posted by Stéphane

  1. Hello, 

     

    I am exploring horizontal section. 

     

    1) Why the components don't join properly (it looks like two separate walls) ? In plan they are joined properly together. 

     

    2) Why can I see the text "- 3.00" which should be hidden by the slab above on which you can see the text "126 m²" ? 

     

    1217088965_Capturedcran2021-01-2115_21_32.thumb.png.8f7cc688b3aa0bd81d73d8b9c91b4358.png

  2. @Tom W., @zoomer, I mean everything that could be part of a floor but are vertical more than horizontal. For instance when you need to insulate your screed... See images below :

     

    I was wondering how you would do it. 3D model it ? Or patch it directly in the layout ? Or is it just going too much into details and you would produce anyway a 2D detail ? 

     

     

     1929484802_Capturedcran2021-01-0517_56_26.thumb.png.9a910752da8d91957cf94730b385f01f.png

     

    1349773884_Capturedcran2021-01-0518_00_16.thumb.png.971bbc5ecee75d1183ac464812892c75.png

    • Like 1
  3. With this solution @Kevin K, you solve the elevation thickness of the slab in elevation (under the "59200" marker), but now everything that is beyond the cut line has one single color which is your grey. It doesn't look bad tho. However (and sorry if I might be too picky), what I would like to do is being able to give more than only one attribute for objects beyond cut line (for instance grey 0.05 for the surface hatch and black 0.10 for the other objects). In this case, this means we cannot use Objects Beyond Cut Plane. 

     

    If we don't use Objects Beyond Cut Plane, it means we have to be able to control lines thickness of an object when they are cut AND when they are in elevation. This is the case for walls (as described earlier) but not for slabs as explained below. 

     

    After having done further tests, my conclusion, sharing @jeff prince one, is this one : 

     

    Section Pen Attribute for slabs components doesn't work as expected. That's it. 

     

    On 12/17/2020 at 5:07 PM, jeff prince said:

    Unfortunately, the Section Pen attribute (found inside the slab's components) of a Slab does not behave as I would expect...It uses this value in BOTH section plane and elevation beyond.  That seems like a bug, or illogical operation for sure.

     

    After all, I would say that @Kevin K way to do it, is still the best way. 

  4. On 12/18/2020 at 6:24 PM, Kevin K said:

    I would still like to get my hands on that file!!!   🙂

     

    Sorry for the delay. There we go. 

     TEST FILE.vwx

     

     

    On 12/18/2020 at 6:24 PM, Kevin K said:

    One item....regarding the hatch issue......could you not just make a duplicate of that hatch and change the hatch settings to be gray?  Then override the settings for the viewport to use they gray hatch settings?? 

     

    The thing is I want 2 colors in elevation. Grey for the hatch and black for the other lines. The green is just for the test (makes it more obvious) but it should be grey. 

  5. First, thank you very much @jeff prince and again, @Kevin K, for your answers. I feel relieved, since I use exactly the same strategy for the attributes in Advanced Section Properties, which means I cannot be completely crazy ! 

     

     

    On 12/17/2020 at 5:07 PM, jeff prince said:

    It seems a cut wall AND the wall beyond the section line take on their component attributes, slabs do the same thing.

     

    Look at my section, it doesn't. Cut wall take on their component attributes, and walls beyond section line take on the wall attributes. Based on my test, slabs don't do the same thing. (If I am not completely crazy). 

     

     

    On 12/17/2020 at 5:07 PM, jeff prince said:

    Unfortunately, the Section Pen attribute (found inside the slab's components) of a Slab does not behave as I would expect...It uses this value in BOTH section plane and elevation beyond.  That seems like a bug, or illogical operation for sure.

     

    Okay, I am not completely crazy. I tested it and that was also my feeling. 

     

     

    On 12/17/2020 at 5:07 PM, jeff prince said:

    For the Slab issue mentioned earlier, you could set the components to the pen thickness you would like to see in elevation and rely on Advanced Properties-Profile Line to depict them in section correctly.  

     

    This could be a nice idea. I will give it a try. But notice that it is the 180° reverse logic compare to the walls. So, we give walls class attributes, their section lines thickness. And we give slabs class attributes, their elevation lines thickness. Then, we override the slabs lines thickness when they are cut and we override the walls lines thickness when they are in elevation. Honestly, I'm pretty sure VW want us to be crazy. 

     

     

    On 12/17/2020 at 5:07 PM, jeff prince said:

    For your colored hatch patterns in elevation, you can edit them and use a color or grey inside the hatch definition independent of the container object's class.  This will not be effected by the class used to place the wall, but will be overridden if you use Advanced Properties and assign a class for objects beyond the section line with different attributes.

     

    Exactly. This is the whole issue with this. So, I use the same setting as you with the Objects Beyond Cut Plane setting to force each lines beyond cut plane to be thin and black. Now, I want my Surface Hatches to be grey. But they become black because of this override. Well, no problem, I untick Objects Beyond Cut Plane. But now my slab in elevation has a thick line ! This is exactly the reason why I try to solve this slab lines thickness issue. 

     

     

    15 hours ago, Kevin K said:

    So, tell me....is his (the) main issue he is having involve what he points out regarding the thicker line for his slab ??  He wants it to be a thinner line?

    Is that correct, or am I still missing the point??

     

    Yes, it is correct ! This issue is actually linked to the previous quote. 

     

     

    15 hours ago, Kevin K said:

    Why would you use colored lines of any sort on items that will be included in a set of plans that will eventually be submitted to the building department, etc?

     

    The green is just for the test. I actually want them grey, which is also a color 🙂

     

     

    15 hours ago, Kevin K said:

    Sorry, that might have been a bit arcane.

     

    Don't be sorry. I realize my whole post is arcane. You are very kind and patient. Thank you for this. 

     

     

    • Like 1
  6. 1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

    Hi @Stéphane I mean whether you have the roof components all ending square with the roof edge or whether you have some of them offset outwards or inwards. The last column:

    886960760_Screenshot2020-12-16at11_44_51.thumb.png.6fb5098dd747658e25b0a564446a2e3a.png

    I think you are using French language software so perhaps translates as something different?

     

     

    Now, I understand. I have no special edge conditions... Everything ends square. No offsets. 

     

    Look, if it doesn't even work properly with simple settings, why would I want to make it even more complicated ? 

  7. 5 minutes ago, markdd said:

    Great. Sorry, I thought that you had tried this option originally.

    Don't ignore the Analysis tool though. It is a fantastically useful way of producing a range of points where objects intersect. Much underused in my opinion.....

     

    I was confused because I couldn't find "Automatic Plan" anymore but it is actually  hidden until you select the 3D Locus tool. My bad. Sorry. By the way I'm happy to have learned the existence of this Analysis Tool. 

  8. Another way to do it, knowing you can snap an edge or a line but not (apparently) a surface : 

     

    - Draw a 3D poly from one edge of the roof to another one, going through the desired point. 

    - Snap a 3D Locus on that 3D poly. 

     

    Not as simple as I wish, but it's something... 

  9. 1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

    So @Stéphane in the roof you're modelling are you needing to set different edge conditions for the different components or is that not an issue for you?

     

    @Tom W., I'm not sure to understand your question. Edge conditions ? What I did : 

    - draw two squares in 2D plan view 

    - convert them into Roof Faces 

    - give them different angles 

    - line the top of them up in elevation 

    - connect them with the Connect/Combine Tool 

    -> proper mitered joints 

    - clip a hole in them 

    -> no more mitered joints 

    - reconnect them with the Connect/Combine Tool 

    -> bug

     

     

     

  10. I have a roof. I want to measure the height of it at a specific point somewhere in the middle of its surface. How to achieve this ? 

     

    What I used to do until now is use the 3D Locus Tool, click in the middle of my roof, select my 3D Locus, write down its Z value. It doesn't always work anymore. Beside this, I don't understand why something that should/could be simple, is so complicated. 

     

    My general goal is to set the Z values of my pillars connecting two tilted geometries. If you have an easier way to achieve this, you are most welcomed ! 

  11. 19 minutes ago, line-weight said:

    But can the slab drainage tool offer the things I list above, plus something extra?

     

    I think @Tom W. summarize pretty well the extras here : 

     

    17 hours ago, Tom W. said:

    It's a shame because you can manipulate/control Slabs in all sorts of satisfactory ways: using wall hole components, clipping components,  adding/subtracting 3D objects, sloping the surface, tapering components, create solid section from grade object, lots of control over individual edge conditions, etc. Be great to have the same flexibility with roofs. 'Roof/Slab Modernization' was in the road map but in the 'Active Research' section...

     

     

     

    19 minutes ago, line-weight said:

    The things I find useful about the roof face tool:

    - it can give me a multi-layer buildup

    - its outline shape can be quite easily edited in top-plan view

    - it can give you an extrude-type object with vertical edges

    - it's quick and easy to adjust and keep track of the pitch, and Z reference

     

    And this is exactly why I prefer the Roof Tool over the Slab Tool to make my underground parking slabs, where drainage slope are not negligible anymore, and easier to do. 

  12. 7 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

     

    That's interesting I thought Slab Drainage tool worked quite well when it came to putting the falls on a flat roof or a concrete yard or whatever...? What I thought didn't work so well was when you wanted to include drain symbols:

     

    It's a bit the same issue we have for connecting roof faces properly : It works only for simple structures. When you get a more complex one, best case : you spend a whole day making it work exactly as you want to; next day your engineer send you an e-mail saying that you cannot and need to spend another day to correct it. Worse case : it doesn't work. 

     

    This exemple sounds a bit stupid but that's actually the very reason why you don't solve these issues at the beginning of the project. And that's why we need to be able to draw drained slabs or roof completely flat, first. When the project is getting stable enough, you start going into the details. 

  13.  

    14 hours ago, Kevin K said:

    One other thought....from my experience as being a designer / builder in a galaxy far far away at one point in time....Flat roofs have to drain....which means the roof can't be dead flat, unless you slope it in various directions towards drains within the flat roof mass...which has its own set of problems to let the water exit.

     

    I am sure Stephane will be yelling at me for bringing this up. 🙂

     

     

    I would never yell at someone that is kind enough to share his experience.

     

    In order to answer to this, I think the question here is not that much how to build roofs, but how to draw roofs.

     

    The original topic : "How to join two roof faces ?". We found out that it was possible to do it for simple structures but not for complex ones (where "complex" stand for 1) roof with a hole; 2) intersection not perpendicular to the edge; 3) 0.000000° flat roof). This means that most of the times the tools to join roof faces are not usable

     

    We all agree that flat roofs are never completely flat, because water need to drain and requires a minimum slope of 1.5%. When we say flat roof we actually say 1.5% tilted roof (Note that this 1.5% slope is not necessarily the last layer). For drainage it is not negligible; but for the drawings up to 1'':10'00'' (+/- 1:100) it is completely negligible. On bigger scale, we draw 2D details anyways. 

     

    There are many reasons why we want to draw dead flat roofs :  

    - As said, when we draw on small scales, at early stage of the project, where you still don't want to think about these details. 

    - Then maybe, the first component and the last component are dead flat. The slope is given by a component in between. 

    - Imagine you are crazy enough to draw your slope with the Drainage Tool on Slab, then you draw your slabs (which would be your roofs) completely flat and you give then the drainage slop with the Drainage Tool. Also, keep in mind that we actually draw tilted slabs with roofs because the Drainage Tool is a nightmare to use (I would say the issues are a bit similar to our "how to join two roof faces": it doesn't work when things are getting complex), but this is another topic. 

    - The main reason is this one : tools are not usable to control slopes accurately ! And this is again why you don't draw your flat roof with a drained slab. 

     

     

     

    16 hours ago, Tom W. said:

    It's a shame because you can manipulate/control Slabs in all sorts of satisfactory ways: using wall hole components, clipping components,  adding/subtracting 3D objects, sloping the surface, tapering components, create solid section from grade object, lots of control over individual edge conditions, etc. Be great to have the same flexibility with roofs. 'Roof/Slab Modernization' was in the road map but in the 'Active Research' section...

     

    I cannot agree more, with a reservation regarding the Drainage Tool ("sloping the surface") which is, in my opinion, unusable. 

    • Like 3
  14. 6 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

    Thanks @Stéphane after I posted I messed around some more + came to the same conclusion. As soon as I clipped my roof faces so they were no longer nice + square the results weren't so good...

     

    307518979_Screenshot2020-12-11at17_37_44.thumb.png.c7985f8c136979fb870e06d30e5531ce.png

    2072081869_Screenshot2020-12-11at17_37_56.thumb.png.ad73283666bb0db7dd09c662f81c1d1c.png

     

    I encountered the same issue when joint line is not perpendicular to the edge, exactly as you did. 

    In case of a hole in the middle of the joint, it is even worse. 

     

  15. Thank you very much, @Tom W., for your input. I did the very same test you described, and it works very well and everything is very nice, indeed. The only thing is that the structure you made is very simple, and it doesn't work so nice anymore in more complex situations.

     

    I could also live with a "flat roof being 0.1 degree". But this is not the only issue. For instance, add a hole in the middle of the joint and it won't work anymore. At least in my experience.  

     

     

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