alanmac

It's been my experience that organic modelling of the type you describe is better handled by a program developed more towards modelling as its main function rather than how VW was developed, as a draughting type program. That's not to say VW is not a capable modeller, but I've found if not using tricks like image mapping over formed objects to create the render you require the file rockets in size and becomes really difficult to work with. It horses for courses as they say. This is one of the reasons I looked into Cinema 4D. Create most of what you can in VW, it's great and quick for most things, but on complex organic shapes revert to something else. With the available plug in you can export your VW file into Cinema and complete the development how you wish. Here's a few links which may help in your research. http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/modules/hair/hair_e.html http://www.maxon.net/pages/images/products/modules/hair/gallery/2/nature09.jpg Don't be put off by the fact the modules called Hair, as you can see from the second link its capable of much more than first perceived. Also check out the Xfrog package It has a plug in link for Cinema 4D. http://www.xfrogdownloads.com/greenwebNew/news/newStart.htm Of course its not going to create construction drawing for planning the job etc, but it sounds like you want to create 3D images as best as possible to show your designs and this may be a route you consider taking. Also xfrog has a link to VW Landmark but I'm not sure how it works and what results you can achieve with it. Check out the main NNA site for details or maybe a staff member will comment here. Regards Alan

I don't have dual monitors in a Mac set up, its not here anyway, so I can't tell you if the file is confined to the workspace area in Mac the same. To know the files are in the right view aspect, each file in the workspace windows should display the same blue line as Windows gives you on the program top, that's what I grab and drag the file to left or right with. If the three symbols are in the grey surround of the VW's program they are maximised and won't allow dragging. I'm sure you know this anyway. VW itself as a program should not be in maximised view either. The resizing part for VW is three little diagonal lines in the very bottom right corner of the program window not the workspace area. Your mouse should change to a two way arrow cursor once you go over it. Alan Edit ....Ah, you beat me to the post. It's a workaround I know but then there are things the Windows version does that the Mac does not. Try opening a file you have saved on a CD. Windows will open it, all be it as a copy, Mac will fail to open it at all giving you an error message and you have to drag it onto your machine to open it. It's back to the old pros and cons list. All the best. Alan

Hi Jim no you can't drag it out of the workspace window, that's what had me wondering what to do. What you have to do is stretch VW, in other words the whole workspce over the two monitors then you can have the room for one on each monitor. As I said move VW to the left monitor then drag the program from its little indicator in the lower right to resize the program window, in doing so it will give you a bigger workspace window. I think the fact the palettes can go beyond the program window serves to confuse people, so they think of the file being able to do the same. That's how I see it anyway. Try it and let me know. As I said its strange for me because now all the commands are on the left monitor not my right. I work sort of off centre. One monitor directly in front, the other to one side at an angle reading mail etc. I'd need to change this to both face on to work comfortably as it appears others do. Regards Alan

Hi Gideon Well, you learn something new everyday, thank goodness. The answer was in the "un-maxised" bit. I've always, since using VW, worked with drawing Maximised in the workspace window. I guess with a 15" monitor you need the drawing as big as possible, ah happy days !!. So never changed as I moved up the monitor ladder, forgetting completely the drawings come in "maxed" all the time. With two drawings "un-maximised" I can see each, sitting side by side or whatever. I have an ATI card (not nVidia), with desktop set to span two monitors. By dragging VW over to the left hand one then extending it via the resizing feature(bottom right corner of VW) I was able to drag VW to fit across both monitors and have one file on one and one on another. Does look strange with the commands on the left monitor and just this long menu bar on the right monitor but I guess you'd get use to it. Is that how it works in the Mac OS Peter? VW stretched across the two monitors? I tend to use VW in one screen with email, web browser in the other as I get emails constantly from the office. I think we got there in the end Jim. Regards Alan

Hi Peter Thanks for your reply. I didn't even know you could have two files open side by side on the same display in Vectorworks on the Mac. I'm in the office tomorrow I'll give it a try on my work G5. Of course, you can have many files open in Windows OS but you have to access them individually via the "window" menu at the top of VW or use a shortcut/key combination. I'm not sure it is an OS thing though, as in Photoshop I can have many files open, viewed and I can do as I asked, drag an image from one file to another, hence my question regarding objects. I can do as you noted in the Windows OS, drag palettes to the other screen to give me a greater uncluttered workspace on the other. I tried my possible workaround and copied the VW file to another partition. Got a message saying files are not associated with this copy, did I want them to be, but upon trying two instances of VW I still got the one, so I deleted copy. Ah well, nice to know I can do it easily if I go all Mac later. May even pop it on the wish list here for Windows users if no answer of a solution from the good NNA folks. All the best Alan

Thanks for the info Peter. Although I have a G5 in the office at work its only hooked up to one available monitor so I've never know this "plus" feature of the Mac. Got two at home though on the Windows set up. Must remember to add that to my pros and cons list when it comes to upgrading the home rig and making the OS decision. Cheers Alan P.S. Can you also drag an object from one file/monitor to the other file/monitor or am I getting to ambitious?

It sounds to me like you had two instances of Vectorworks open, not one version with one file per monitor, as I'm sure all files are constrained visibly to the workspace. Whilst I've never tried this, I understand its possible to open two instances of VW when using a Mac but not Windows. This was mentioned in another thread in relation to working in VW whilst waiting for VW to render something complex. So that I think would explain it. After thinking about it you may well be able to open two instances on Windows. Worth a possible experiment. If you have more than one drive on your computer or a drive partitioned you could try installing the copy on the other drive and open it from a shortcut directed at that drives exe file, as just hitting the program open button twice just reverts back to the one "open" copy. I don't know if such an action is contrary to the license agreement, best check. Alan

I think its a misconception to believe a forum represents a user base. I know many users of software, not just Vectorworks, who never visit, look at or sign up to any forum related to the software they use. So at best it represents a view of some of its users and the various aspects, problems, situations they encounter whilst using the software. As for the remarks about subsidising the development of plug ins only of use for the American market is, in my opinion tenuous. I use the basic version and as you can see from my signature I'm still using older versions. The reason for this is when upgrades are released I find most of the new features that I may actually use don't come with the basic version. So I could quite easily say my upgrading of the basic version is subsidising the work on specialised versions I don't even need to use. At the end of the day I really don't know what you hope to achieve from your post. I doubt if it would bring about a change in how NNA does business, and certainly as part of the Nemetschek group it has to work in conjuction with the groups overall plans. We can only second guess what the purchase of Archicad and its addition to the group will mean in the future. Maybe its a case of here are three products in the area of CAD, Allplan, Archicad and Vectorworks. As a user you have a choice of three product lines to suit your individual requirements and budget. On balance I'm happy to continue to use VW as my CAD program of choice and believe whilst, as with all things, there is room for improvement, it's still a great product. Happy New Year Alan

I see what you are saying and it's not ideal I know but I think if the PB is aware that this program requires the dongle to run then I think you've covered your obligations in a honest and straightforward manner. After all if said laptop was to show low battery power and they had forgotten the mains convertor/power block it would be a similiar situation. At least if you make them aware and say something along the lines of "As you are aware this software is protected by a hardware key, a dongle. Should you be unfortunate enough to forget to take it with you on a external meeting, don't worry there is a simple alternative. When installing VW also install the Viewer, handily included on the installation CD." Not ideal I know, but under the circumstances a reasonable workaround. You'll, I'm sure be aware of the many posts that have berated the use of the dongle, this expired horse has been well and truly flogged, but it continues to be the chosen method of protection, so I guess we are stuck with it. Finally I agree 100% that if no dongle is present then it should indeed revert to demo mode. I'm sure this is not beyond the capabilities of the good folk at NNA. Alan

Petri The demo version, as far as I'm aware, does not require a dongle, but of course does not allow you to save your work. As for the dongle method of protection I am led to believe this is something that is country/regional area specific. American users do not have them. As a UK user my version does. I don't like it anymore than you but as I understand it this is down to your regional area distributors requirement/request, not NNA's in America. Alan

Intel Core 2 Duo Processor and lots of ram, 2 GB, will see you rendering at a good pace. Intels Core 2 Duo processor is not only considerably faster than your old P4 it runs cooler and uses less energy to do so. As with all processors there comes a point at which you really do pay a lot more for the faster speed. A good blend of power and price is the E6400 model. With graphics cards you can pay a huge sum for a "professional" card or a top of the range gaming card. Again setting your sights slightly lower offers excellent performance at a reasonable price. GeForce 7600GT if your on a tight budget, if you have a bit more GeForce 7900GS. Frankly anything will be faster than the onboard graphics you have at present, especially as its using your ram to help it, and you only have 500mb !! Don't bother with another P4 no matter how much of a bargain its sold as, or the Pentium D range, now Core2 Duo is out. AMD up until the release of Core Duos from Intel was your better bet and they are still fast processors if you look at Athlon 64 X2's but they largely struggle to keep up with the Core2 Duo on power and price. Check this out from a recent copy of PC Pro magazine regarding CPU's. http://www.pcpro.co.uk/labs/146/cpu-megatest/introduction.html You may have to register, but its free. It sounds like you'll be buying from a manufacturer rather than self build so look at specs, compare them and ask if its Windows Vista ready, will you get the upgrade to Vista as part of the package. Will the motherboard allow you to upgrade the CPU to the quad core processors that are being released some time next year I believe. Happy Shopping Alan

Shaun I know that when a plug in that is part of your workflow breaks it can be very disruptive to your work and earning a living. I'm sure as a CD4 user you'll visit such sites as CGtalk.com and you will see that Cinema 4D, a great program, has as most software, at some stage suffered with broken plug ins. The many changes recently have been exceptional. The need to make any software that uses the Apple OS has had to transfer to ensure it is available as a Universal Binary application. The fact that it comes as a full .5 upgrade, free, at no cost to existing VW12 users, as is the way with NNA should not be overlooked. Something you don't get from Maxon in Cinema 4D by the way. Experience has lead me to ensure a backward path is available should a upgrade etc. fail or become troublesome. With that in mind please think about what is on the horizon. Vista from a Windows point of view, Leopard from Apples OSX, the change of computer operating to a true 64 bit operating system with the gradual loss of 32 bit hardware and software supporting this. It's not going to happen overnight but it will eventually. It will go the way of video recorder, still about but not for very much longer. Its all a bit of a money merry go round really. You can stay on board knowing you have the "latest and greatest" (even if you never ever use any of the increased features), jump off if you've had enough and can exist with what you have and don't need more, or even at a later stage decide to jump back on again. You are not barred from doing any of the above, free to make the choice. Alan

I just remembered this evening that at around the time VW 12 was released one of the things mentioned by Sean Flaherty was that it would now come cross platform so you could install a license on Mac or PC, no longer having to be purchased platform specific. The serial number would be the same one and of course with the UK version this means the dongle must be there and match the serial number, so no chance of trying anything illegal. I've done a search but I can't seem to find it and think it may have been a feature discussed on the Users list rather than here. As for NNA's or its staff expressing a choice for which platform you use, I've never seen them suggest anything other than what suits the user, taking into consideration other software you may use and the other elements that make up your usage such as collaboration, existing equipment, size of operation etc. Indeed Sean Flaherty has appeared in articles on the Mac only Architosh site on several occasions so I'd say that NNA shows support in equal measure for both platforms. Just be happy that your choice of platform is not limited to one in NNA's eyes. The difference in OS operating on what is virtually the same hardware has reached a point were it really is down to personal preferences. Finally going back to a comment some post ago,regarding editable colour palette with Macs. I checked my Windows 10.5 version of VW and I can edit all the colours. Alan

Colin It's my understanding, as a UK user, you can only change platforms when upgrading, and as you already have 12.5 it's waiting for VW13. But speak to the UK distributors, Computers Unlimited. As regards your problem, I run both versions of VW, I'll admit they are not up to date but there is no major difference in usage. As for buying a Mac, of course the OS is different but apart from some minor changes Apple make, the hardware's the same, in other words your buying a PC. The Power Mac is an excellent machine whatever platform you choose to run on it but it's a Dual dual core Xenon based system and may well be overkill for your needs. The alternative is the iMac, but it's as you probably know, a all in one unit and you may prefer buying your monitors as separate items. Also upgradability is limited compared to the normal stand alone tower units from Windows based suppliers. Therefore the only "advantage" in usage terms of a Mac is in the operating system which is down to personal preference. Apple have been lucky that the scumbags that infest the internet making and spreading a virus have not cast there eye towards Apple. If they ever do in earnest then all those unprotected users will have to think again. Bear in mind if you load windows on a Mac you will of course, on the Windows side, be susceptible to virus etc. as if you had any other Windows machine. As for using a mouse, most work with Apples and one of the first things I do is get rid of the one button, "this makes working slower and more clicks/things to do to perform the same task" Apple mouse and get a good scroll wheel multi-button mouse. The only pain I've suffered in using these in many years is with the wireless ones. I found the extra weight brought about by having batteries inside made my wrist ache. I'm going back to a lighter, corded laser model. Alan

Straight from the Apple web site "Support for external display in extended desktop * Digital resolutions up to 1920 x 1200 * Analogue resolutions up to 2048 x 1536" But don't do it, because once you've worked with a dual monitor set up you'll never want to go back to just one ;~) Alan

Whilst they are coming into line with the rest of the world they could also use this as an opportunity get the spelling of the metre measurement in line with the rest of the world as well ;~) Its a distance of measurement, not something you put money in to park, or read how much gas or electricity you've used. Alan

By what you say it sounds like your insurance company won't cover you for loss of computer or other business related equipment either. If working from home its best to make this clear to your insurance company and pay extra to cover yourself. If they won't then you'll need to change insurers or get an additional policy for this. As regards the dongle, at home I leave mine plugged in at the back of the tower unit. I figure if the machine gets stolen I'm going have to claim anyway, and the odds on it getting stolen are less than the odds against me losing/damaging the dongle by constantly removing/inserting or damaging it whilst away from the computer, then having to buy another. I did unplug it at first, but a couple of scares with it "lost" made me decide to leave it in the computer. At work its the same but in the back of the Apple Cinema monitor. Of course having a laptop and it sticking out the side etc. is a different matter. I'd remove it then and find one safe place to put it and always use that same place. I can understand CU's point of view as regards a missing dongle, you could be trying to get a second license on the cheap, but I don't think you'll be charged full price if it goes faulty and you return it. Well I hope not anyway. Alan

I don't see how these figures can relate to the arguement to have a Linux version of VW. To say that the market share is equal to Mac is misreading the figures, or distorting them to make a point. The fact that Mac may have only 3.8% of the market overall does not take into account the industries that this 3.8% is in. Without a doubt there is a greater percentage than 3.8% of people in the creative industries using Apple compared to Windows users. I'd say that in many market sectors the number of users are about equal or pretty close. Just as probably there is a greater percentage of Linux users in the Server industries You can't use these figures you are quoting in isolation. I'm not saying you are wrong to want it, or it won't happen, but I think the management of NNA would take into account all factors when making such a decision, the one of support being the most costly, and what distribution would they go with. As I understand it there are several to choose from. If it means the cost of my Apple or Windows versions of VW going up to help fund these costs then I for one say no thanks. Alan

If the Mac Pro is out of your price range I'd certainly put the iMac 20" Dual Core 2 on your shortlist, that is if you want to stay Apple. Of course bear in mind that whatever Mac you buy will be a change to the Intel family of processors and you'll need to upgrade your software to UB versions to get the best from them. Also take account of the limited upgradability of the all in one machine, but in most instances its only really the ram that most people need to worry about and you'll be covered there okay. More additional storage capacity beyond the built in hard drive can be handled with an external hard drive/s. Sadly if you don't want to have a built in screen but have the flexibility to choose your own seperate one then you've found the one area lacking in what is otherwise a near prefect range of products Apple are offering at present. For those not wanting the power or price tag of the Mac Pro the only alternative is the Mac Mini and the built in graphics card is just not good enough for what you propose. Apple could do with introducing a good middle ground machine. Mini tower style, Core Duo2 processor with a seperate graphics card, but maybe they feel this would harm sales of both the Mac Mini and iMac. Having said that the monitor in the 20" iMac is very good and its my current top of the list for upgrading to. Of course going the Windows route will give you greater choice in machines and configurations, and may well sit in that price range you have a budget for. Currently Intels Core Duo 2 based machines are the ones to go for in terms of performance/cost balance but as we all know with computers, that's today, next week, next month, next year may be a different story. AMD will not sit still. You'll also benefit from being able to choose from a greater range of graphic cards. Buying from a manufacturer will give you support and a warranty whilst building your own machine will give you the maximum flexibility in component choice but may not be something you are keen to do or feel comfortable with. Alan

Using the edit workspace function. Open VW. Go down the FILE till you see Workspaces. Choose Workspace Editor. Choose your option, it depends if you've modified your workspace, but I choose edit current workspace. You'll see two large windows appear. Drag the command, any, it does not have to be the ones we talked about, any you want to use frequently over from the left hand window to the right hand window, making sure its in the right position. Location in this case should be under the heading Document Context(right click on document) You may need to expand that by hitting the plus symbol to locate it better/exactly were you want it to appear in the running order. Close it and now try your right mouse button whilst in a blank area of the drawing. Welcome to the flexibility of the VW interface. Glad to help. Alan

If you want to combine your pdfs like you could on Windows using the PDF995 Suite use pdflab, go to http://www.iconus.ch/fabien/pdflab/ Really simple easy to use. Alan

I got these some time ago and assigned them to the drop down list that appears when right mouse button clicking. Can't imagine being without them now, so quick and easy in comparison. Enjoy. Alan

Here is a quote from the recent eDispatch in case you don't subscribe "One of the most exciting new features in VectorWorks 12.5is the result of our collaboration with Adobe? and their technology partner Datalogics: enhanced PDF support.As projects get more complex and more specialists get involved, PDF has become the most efficient way to transfer information without shipping delays or DWG translation questions. Although Macintosh? customers have had access to some limited built-in PDF support, we wanted to create higher quality drawing sets more quickly. In addition, the import of PDF files (also without translation worries) allows you to import somebody else's drawing and draw right on top of it to communicate everything from simple comments to complete designs. This is just the first release of what should be a growing collaboration technology for future releases of VectorWorks." Alan

and my time is better spent, but then again I'm not the one complaining about lost income.

panthony I agree with most of what you say in regard to how you feel but I think to me you misinterepted the original question. Sure the title says Selling VW to DIYers, but the content of ArchKens post sayes "what are your views on selling Vectorworks to a general building contractor (or owner) who wants to bypass the architect/designer?" To me that not the general public who pop down to their local diy store and buy stuff to do up their homes as you seem to be describing. I would have thought it was builders, construction companies, people who build for a living as a business being refered to here, but don't want to or don't feel the need to employ the services of an architect/designer for whatever reason, and should they be allowed to buy VW or should a reseller be prepared to sell VW to them. You're hardly likely to buy VW at its cost and complexity as a diyer to design your new kitchen or bathroom anyway. I'd ask you to re read the first post, maybe I got it wrong but that's the way I see it put forward. Alan