alanmac

George Hi, I have to admit in what you hoped would explain your situation you've confused me. You are aware of course that RGB is the method by which colours are displayed on screen by computers, video cards etc. and CYMK, the four colour printing process is the time honoured method by which printers lay down and create colours in printwork. No printing machine to my knowledge can print RGB and has to do the conversation somewhere in the production process. Even in programs such as Photoshop you can read the CYMK values of the images on screen but the colours you see are being displayed via RGB. Even then this image you see may or may not be close to the CYMK colour you wish to portray dependant on how your equipment is set up, colour profiling etc. A task only performed by expensive equipment. At my last place of work we had our large format inkjet printer colour profiled and ensured we got good results from that point onwards using that profile, but reprints of old files would not print correctly using that profile, we would have to revert back to the previous profile just to maintain consistence, correct colours or not! Are you saying you are designing something in Vectorworks, applying colours to it and then some how reading the CYMK values and giving these to your paint supplier to reproduce, with the client expecting to see the same colour in situ as he has seen in the printed visuals etc? Sorry if I'm not understanding you correctly. Alan

Take a look over on the cgtalk.com website and do a search. Search in the "Hardware" section where a lot of this is talked about and should start you in the right direction. As I'm sure you are aware technology is ever changing and at a fast pace. The majority of CAD work undertaken does not require this level of number crunching but as you say you are going into hefty rendering and animation and thats an area which makes heavy demands on a machine. Depending on the programs you use some manufacturers have tested their machines with certain programs and give system recommendations based on these. If you go the self build route then the help and advice on sites such as cgtalk. com and others will prove invaluable. Looking at your web site may I suggest you look also into the Vectorworks/Cinema 4D combination. Don't know what you are currently using. Whilst Renderworks offers excellent results I think the area you work in may require the greater capabilities of Cinema and with the dedicated plug in you can update your Vectorworks file and then in turn update your Cinema one without loss of work. If you have several machines you can share the animation rendering task over these and save many hours of machine time. You'll need the software to achieve this, available in most programs including Cinema. Good luck and happy shopping. Alan

George I understand your problem but my experience is that even programs specificaly designed for the production of graphics struggle with conversions unless you spend the sort of money large print houses and dedicated studios do to get the right software. This does not take into account the individual output from various printers including, postscript variations. At my previous studio I have found printing an identical file from Photoshop onto a Epson differs greatly to that of a HP printer. Both have a wide variety of settings to choose and apply. The same would happen from print house output. Then with have the issue of different standards and settings, let alone cross platform issues. With even the graphics programs open to variation and studios calling in companies to colour profile all their equipment I think its pushing hard on Nemetschek to come up with an answer to your request when even the graphics programs struggle and as I said output can vary in the finished print. As I'm sure you are aware printing proofs are expensive. The cost of calling in people to colour calibrate all your equipment is simply not feasible unless you are doing a considerable amount of colour print work. If you think punching in the correct value numbers in all programs will give you the same printed output in my experience this does not happen and if this counts for programs aimed at graphic design what chance does a essentially CAD program have, and if called upon to do so what would the additional cost to the program price be over benefit to the vast number of users. Not really sure what your clients end requirement needs to justify this level of colour fidelity from CAD drawings but can they not take your files as images, place them within their documents and adjust the colours from within that program. Would this be something like Quark,Indesign,Photoshop, Illustrator, or Freehand? I feel your pain, I really do, but I feel unrealistic client expectations are sometimes grounded in lack of knowledge of processes or the blanket application of a set of rules out of step with what is required of the information required and produced. I think you'll wait a long time for your wish with so many other things needing to be added of greater use to a broader user base in Vectorworks. Hope you find a way round it and keep the work. best regards Alan

See my reply in the General section

I have found that the double click does not always get the desired results in many software cases with files on CD or if they are transfered from Mac to PC and vice versa. In both instances the best way to go about this is to open the file using the open file command from within Vectorworks including your desire to print. It will of course give you a new file name option but that's never a problem. I think its because a file is on a CD it can't "write back" to it to perform certain tasks as opposed to the old days of floppy disc, although that was so long ago I don't remember if you could do it then either. All the best Alan

Hi Steve a similiar question came up a while back with no real response from the powers that be, but I did contribute my sixpenny worth. If you're interested here is the thread number, and as I said in the responses I'm guessing its to discourage what Nemetschek regards as improper use of eductional copies. http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=004388 Alan [ 02-12-2005, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: alanmac ]

Go to the Maxon web site and look through the pages that will give you what you need to know, its easy enough. http://www.maxon.net/index_e.html I'm starting to feel a little uneasy about your line of questioning because if you purchased Cinema or Vectorworks the dealer you brought it from should know this and help you out.

Do a forum search. This situation has been covered before with I think Katie giving the answers to most common problems.

Hi Mike Have not done it myself but the function you mentioned about vector angle and distance, can this not be easily achieved by drawing a line at the angle required and use duplicate along path using the line as your path? Although I suppose this would only give you a repeat of the selected object, rather than an "array" if you wanted copies above and below as well as along the path. Alan

No you don't use dxf or dwg with the plug in, that's the purpose of the plug in. To convert the Vectorworks file into a Cinema 4D file with all its relevant classes etc so as to use it in Cinema and to be able to update your file from VW should you need to without loss of existing work done in Cinema such as lighting textures etc. You could go the dxf route without the plug in by creating a dxf file from your VW one and then opening it in Cinema but I don't know how well that would work and you'd lose the chance to alter the file if need be without having to start again. As Katie and I said you need the plug in from Maxon, which you can buy easily enough.

I believe with the change of both Apple and Windows over to the new 64 as opposed to 32 bit hardware based operating system many programs will need to be rewritten. Although the operating systems may allow for backward compatability to some degree it is my understanding that to get the advantages fully of the new 64 based OS the programs need to be solely written for this hardware What I think it will eventually lead to in the not to distant future is older software will not run on new machines and vice versa,older machines will not run the new software. Much like in the broadcasting of TV and Radio in the UK, with analog being replaced , so programs will only be broadcast digitally and only available to those with digital equipment. Some would say a forced upgrade scenario others would say its just progress. Getting back to Vectorworks, I guess this is what Nemetschek is working on now in the background, as for example with the way the program is written for OSX/Apple at present . It makes business sense not to do a complete rewrite for OSX as it is now knowing the future OS is Tiger and beyond with its 64 bit base. [ 01-28-2005, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: alanmac ]

As you know you'll need the plugin as well as both programs. You'll need to insert the relevant files in both VW and Cinema plug in folders, and adjust your workspace in VW to see it as a export option. This is available from Maxon not Nemetschek, either direct or via country based Maxon dealership. It's not free, you will have to pay for it unless you purchased the package Cinema 4D for Vectorworks which of course has the the plug in CD included along with the Cinema program discs.

If the files are to big to put on a floppy why are you not using CD-R or CD-RW discs? The cost issue would have been a problem a few years ago but discs and burners are dirt cheap and it can give you an instant back up if you also burn the original file, a dxf,dwg even if you want, as well as the pdf. CD-RW if you want to reuse a disc once full. I've found text formatting and font issues with exporting to dxf and dwgs and switched straight to pdf which works great with my print bureau as I'm sure yours does. I've recently dug out and tried old floppy discs of mine to find some old files and found them more than a little unreliable! Ahh. Maybe somebody from NNA will chip in with the knowledge you need, such as purging the file of unneeded resources within the file. Beyond my working experience I'm afraid. Good luck

I just sent a 5 mb VW file to one of my clients as a dxf and it jumped to 9 mb so my guess is that all these programs need to translate information which in turn creates code enlarging the file. I have to say if you are having problems with manipulating and printing a file of this size, 15 mb, you need to be looking seriously at the system you are running. What is the configuration you are using ? [ 01-13-2005, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: alanmac ]

With the Microsoft Optical wireless tilt wheel mouse you can scroll from side to side with the wheel as well as up and down in VW 10.5 +.

td4stage Sorry don't see it myself. Of course with any upgrade changes will be made to the program, most will be welcome, some not, and if you didn't get changes it wouldn't be an upgrade. So I think every user expects and allows time to learn what each major release has to offer when upgrading. This could involve changes in the way we work brought about by research and suggestions from end users. I'm sure you will find somebody prepared to teach Vectorworks at version 8.5 etc. but any trainer worth their fee would train you with the latest version, to take full advantage of whats available. After all that's usually the only license available to purchase from NNA. Joining a firm still using much older software, such as 8 etc. may involve training somebody with that version but not in any forward thinking company I know. Any training establishment and teachers are duty bound to keep up with changes to the program chosen to teach students with, sending them out with up to date knowledge and experience of using it. As stated exporting to lower versions than 10 is available with the professional version so it does not matter if a co worker has decided to stay on version 8 or 9. your professional version allows for this. I fail to see in educational terms where you would want to export to a lower version and with the price being so low for the educational licenses there is little excuse not to keep up with current versions in an educational environment. Maybe NNA has discovered a widespread abuse of the eductional license status and system deciding to curb this wherever possible. From my personal experience I found that when exporting from 10.5 to 8.5 that certain elements created in 10.5 simply did not appear in 8.5 which also makes a good reason not to export down any further than need be. Importing is a different matter, but I believe in what opinion has been voiced before in this forum, to save grief always finish a project in what you started it in, never change or upgrade part way through it. [ 01-10-2005, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: alanmac ]

Guess they want you to use the educational version for that purpose only. I bet Acad want you to follow the same rules with any form of reduced price educational version scheme they may have too.

Whilst I don't have an answer to your question I'm intrigued by your comment regarding the credibility of the program. In what context. Are these people saying a camera gives a true perspective of a view and as such you should match to a given camera lens size ? Does any camera lens give the same true perspective view as seen by the human eye. I'm no architect and my limited experience of local planning departments leaves me to believe, certainly in my area, it is all down to the whim of the planning officer either in charge or handling your application at that time. From a position twelve years ago that an extension to the property must look as such, set back from the original building line etc. and not make the property appear larger or out of context to ones neighbours to a position now where more or less anything goes unless objected to by the neighbouring properties.

Why different layers for different objects, and who said it's the "supposed" way of doing things. You have classes, you have layers. Nothing stopping you using one layer if you want to. In answer to your question I think you'll find you need to link the layers, read up in the manual about it as I've no need of this facility and never used it.

Neelish If you didn't already realise and was being ironic I think mike was taking a bit of a swipe at our suggestions for the rendering program, but he inadvertantly, but you did not, come up with the right frame of mind. Fitness for purpose for my needs is to produce the best I can within a realistic time frame and from a realisticly priced program. Having gone the Artlantis route, which was granted, not as easy as the Renderworks one in process, it did produce better results, but I still felt these could be better. Cinema offers the same ease of export as Artlantis, a no brainer as far as I'm concerned, but the potential of far better renders from a much more capable program. It's not as if its what everybody uses it to justify the remark, and its rising popularity is due to the excellent qualities of the program which is why its being suggested more and more, and after all the original post asked for our suggestions and advice. I can live with the remark that Cinema is not really easy to use if that is a criticsm brought up, but it's not bad either. Would not want to pull the wool over anybodys eyes ;~) From what I've seen for what its aimed as Sketch up is also excellent. I may get it if funds allow myself. Be seeing ewe.

Hi Alexandre thanks for the explanation. I tend to model(not an architect) with visibility in mind, so thats why it takes me so long !!!. I can see this would save you time, but does it not give a false impression on exterior wall height. Then again it depends on the slab and other thickness I suppose. Just of the top of my head, thinking about it, I would tackle it this way, in this instance. You need the model to sit on something such as the impression on the ground. I'd take the "ground" and from it subtract it, as in subtract solids, a copy of the floor slab, this would of course need to be moved downwards to subtract correctly. Then move the ground up the required amount to hide the edges of slab etc. It should render okay then. Bound to be a reason why this won't work but its just a thought. Alan [ 12-19-2004, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: alanmac ]

Hi Mike I'm curious as to why you would want the capability to apply different textures to the four sides of a floor slab? Alan [ 12-19-2004, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: alanmac ]

pdf995 is a windows program, do a search on google for a mac based one.

Out of interest what are the significant changes you are seeing in your drawing appearance when using pdf or postscript files ?

I'd agree with the comments on using pdf. The print bureau I've used in the UK has a combination of output devices and I can get black and white plan prints very cheaply by giving pdf files they output on a plan printer akin to a large photocopier. Don't exactly know its type but its as I say like a photocopier, toner based and prints very fast at excellent quality. I'd imagine you are more likely to find all printers are capable of printing a pdf whilst its more of a specialist market to print using postscript. Not rare by any stretch of the imagination but it's a possibility they may not have that capability. If they do then I think it could be a business geared more towards the graphics market wide format printing and these tend to be more expensive than copy shop business models. The time charged out for machines charged out regardless of file output, plan print or photo quality image. Not always the case but would explain why some companies charge much higher than others offering printing services. [ 12-10-2004, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: alanmac ]