Chris D
-
Posts
898 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Articles
Marionette
Store
Posts posted by Chris D
-
-
Chris says his intent is not primarily to improve the OIP, it's primarily to get rid of the Attributes palette, and specifically so as to prevent me from working the way I do.
I've clarified my position already that I DON'T wish to prevent anyone working off-class; simply to remove the artificial slant that encourages users to work off-class, by separating out line and fill from other object properties.
I work in an office of 55 Vectorworks users and it's difficult to get them all to work to a similar standard, particularly with regard to using our office classing system (based on the national Uniclass construction classification system). I would like the program to simply help us manage that more effectively by having attributes on the OIP. If you want a mini OIP or tearable line/fill palette, or even a preference setting to retain the original attributes palette, that's fine too.
-
bah...go metric!
Only joking..then you'd still have to contend with half the world using a period and half using a comma as the decimal separator...
On a related matter, you still can't change the font and font size of dimensions from the OIP in 2008. Frustrating that you have to go to the menu to do it.
-
1. Did you save the source file before you updated? (Does the Nav Palette show it as out of date?)
Yup, saved it. Then updated.
2. Maybe there's a refresh bug? If you move the symbol that didn't appear to update, does it then suddenly update?
Nope, doesn't update on move, or on close & re-open. Only updates when your try and add a second instance of that symbol.
2. That's a trickier one. Do we do that for all referenced resources? Does that run the risk of complicating the drawing for users who don't really care? Maybe just doing #1 above would be enough?
Visual feedback is important in a heads-up way, rather than just in the OIP. I'd even like a floating tip when you hover over the link icon, with the name/path. As I said to Cris, the visual feedback could be turned off in preferences for those that like the minimalist look. In my opinion though, those offices making use of referenced symbols are likely to have some form of drawing standards in place, and probably a symbol library, and are likely to appreciate anything that makes the management of these resources easier and more 'apparent' to users.
-
Whoah, I'm not going nearly so far as Mike here...all I'm suggesting is that the manual settings for line and fill are placed right next to the class button....just to remind users that the two are not necessarily separate, and hopefully see a shift towards better structured drawings using classes to define line/fill.
Nobody wants to limit the flexibility to go off-class if that's how you work.
The idea of ditching the separate line/fill palette is my proposal here. Again, for the few users that might find this floating palette essential, it could always be a preference, but should definitely not be on by default, in my opinion.
-
just so I can set lineweights and fills.
This is exactly the problem jan15 - I maintain that line and fill should be set by class in 99% of cases, otherwise large drawings become impractical to manage, and control of line and fill in viewports becomes impossible.
If you're setting lots of line and fill manually, you should be using Corel Draw. For architectural and technical drawings, formal classing of objects is essential.
The whole reason for my proposal is to remove this disassociation between Class and Line/Fill.
-
Heresy?
In the style of Petri: The case for the Prosecution:
The Attributes Palette is an annoying little floating palette, that for no logical reason, separates certain attributes of an object away from it's other properties.
All object properties are amended in the Object Info palette, apart from line and fill.
This causes great annoyance in having to dart from top-right to bottom-left of the screen when changing properties such as class and fill.
Further, it is alleged that this does contribute to sloppy practice in users deviating from Class Style too often by setting manual fill colors when they would be better advised to create an appropriate class for their needs.
I propose, your honour, that attributes are reunited with the other properties, and added to the Object Info palette.
Documents presented to the court:
Badly Photoshopped (actually Gimpshopped) Palette Proposal
-
Cris has a point about screen clutter, but it's nothing a Preference couldn't handle.
I think the visual feedback is actually one of the more important bits though, especially in a large office when trying to prevent users from bastardising standard symbols (which then can't be managed centrally) - if they've broken a link, it's easy to spot it.
-
I would love VW to have an UNDO history and even a step-back feature, similar to that in Photoshop. This would also serve as a command history, something I miss from my AutoCAD days..
-
Brilliant idea. This would be great, and would remove the need for that dialog which asks whether you want to enter 2D or 3D edit mode - just go straight in and tab to what you want to edit. This would help newbies get their head round hybrid symbols much better too.
-
Referencing symbols from one file to another didn't get improved much in 2008. Here's how I'd like to see it improved:
1. OIP INFO
The Object Information Palette does not identify referenced symbols as such. These objects should clearly be distinguished as a separate object type: Symbol - Referenced when selected. The symbol name should also be in italics, like it is in the Resource Browser. The source file should be listed at the bottom of the OIP, like it is for viewport references.
2. SYMBOL DISPLAY
There is currently no way to visually distinguish a referenced symbol from an inserted symbol in the drawing area. How about a chain icon at the insertion point when selected.
3. DOUBLE CLICK
The old dumb feedback The Selection is Locked should be replaced by a dialog offering two options: Edit Source File, Break Reference & Edit
4. RIGHT CLICK
Add the menu item Update to allow manual updating of symbol references.
-
Yeah, I know that there are two ways to hatch, but there AREN'T two ways to hatch with a defined origin and rotation, as the Fill Hatch doesn't allow this, only the Hatch command, but this is a cheat (not associative, like you say).
-
Re: 2.
Wall returns should be optional. UK practice at least, has mostly moved to cavity-closers rather than returning the masonry. I would like to see the option to return either the inner or outer leaf (used occasionally) and the option of a custom cavity-closer.
Re: 14 & 37
Yes absolutely. These are just the sort of 'work smarter' things that NNA claimed to be focusing on with the release of 2008. Hatch Rotation and Symbol Scaling are essential to eliminate the monkey work of having to make multiple versions of the same hatches and symbols.
While we're on the hatch topic there are another two long-suffered bugbears that weren't fixed in 2008: a ROTATE button in the hatch-creation dialog; and an end to the CHEAT that is the VW Hatch command (Modify: Hatch) which doesn't create a hatch at all but creates a group of dumb lines!!!
-
Not sure if this is a bug or good old user incompetence..
In super duper VW2008, if I reference a symbol from another file, then amend that symbol in the other file, how do I update the referenced symbol?
Just updating the Reference in the org/nav palettes doesn't update referenced symbols - fine, it might be designed like that - but if I place another instance it DOES update.
While we're on the topic, Symbol Referencing seems to be the neglected sibling of the new Viewport Referencing. My complaints about the VW12 system went unheeded (sigh....all that time typing things into the Wish List...). It's STILL impossible to find out where the heck a referenced symbol is referenced from, or even to know that a symbol is referenced until you try and edit it. At the risk of exhausting my two-finger typing skills, here's what I'll add to the wishlist later:
HOW TO FIX SYMBOL REFERENCING:
1. OIP INFO
The Object Information Palette does not identify referenced symbols as such. These objects should clearly be distinguished as a separate object type: Symbol - Referenced when selected. The symbol name should also be in italics, like it is in the Resource Browser. The source file should be listed at the bottom of the OIP, like it is for viewport references.
2. SYMBOL DISPLAY
There is currently no way to visually distinguish a referenced symbol from an inserted symbol in the drawing area. How about a chain icon at the insertion point when selected.
3. DOUBLE CLICK
The old dumb feedback The Selection is Locked should be replaced by a dialog offering two options: Edit Source File, Break Reference & Edit
4. RIGHT CLICK
Add the menu item Update to allow manual updating of symbol references.
-
Yes Yes Yes
Most of our users never click on the data tab unless they want to edit a Record Format - so don't even realise that viewports have names. PLEASE move the name to the SHAPE tab.
-
Don't suppose plug-ins can be centrally located on the server...same with workspaces? That would be very handy. I did notice the arrival (finally) of the facility to backup to a specified folder, but not sure how far this extends to other resources.
-
Thanks Mike, but as Christiaan says - managing plug-ins in a large office can be a pain. I've had similar plug-ins with contextual menus for these things since version 11, but at each upgrade I've got to do it all again in the new workspace. The point I was making that these are BASIC toggles and should be up front in the workspace.
-
Hi Christiaan - we've received our first batch of 2008 licences here in Nottingham (on the day I left for two weeks paternity leave, of all days...but I had an hour playing with it before I left).
Initial impressions - slicker and more professional feel:
Selection Highlight is the most obvious change when you open up - and it's good. No more overlapping grips. There's also a new stretch-object toggle that's related to the highlighting - you still get the grips with a single object selected and can stretch, or not, depending on the toggle.
View Rotate seems to be well implemented and is even sort of animated (on a mac at least). I need to check out how it deals with the origin, and origin of hatches etc when in rotated view, but I didn't get a chance [user origin generally is one of those long-standing bugbears I kept forgetting to put on the wishlist, as hatches would never follow the new origin and there was never a command to return to original origin].
Wall Component Classing is also nicely done - not too many sub-windows to get to. Again, I haven't checked out using it with viewport overrides yet. The pain for me is that I'd just completed a massive set of standard wall-types for the office...and now I've got to do them again (I'm not complaining though, as wall classes are long overdue).
Something I didn't see in the promo stuff is something really useful for newbs - when you're editing a group or a symbol the screen now changes and you get a coloured border around the window and a more prominent EXIT button.
I'm having trouble getting used to the heads-up coordinate entry (I do like it, just haven't mastered it yet). I haven't found out yet how to enter X and Y coordinates instead of length and angle (it's probably really obvious).
Obvious disappointments:
Really basic View Toggles are STILL NOT in the workspace: Edit Groups in Place, and View Lineweights are still hidden away in the Preferences. These should have been added to that nice new View toolbar at the top of the screen. For heaven's sake NNA, these are not SETTINGS, they are TOGGLES. You toggle them on and off all the time - please move them to front of house. (Yes I know how to add them to the workspace myself...but it's clumsy, and why should I have to)
That's all I got chance to look at really - looking forward to having a good rummage though. Might have to bring my dongle home...
-
We work exactly the same way as Christiaan - must be a UK thing - planning drawings in colour, construction drawings in greyscale. Printing is mostly outsourced to a local repro firm, and colour prints cost 10 times what greyscale prints cost
Just to bring the discussion back to insulation hatches - the hatches we use are designed to print well in all situations: colour, greyscale and mono:
-
I agree that wavy insulation should be a wall component. It would need to work with curved walls too.
We currently use two hatches for insulation - one for fibre insulants and one for foam insulants:
-
When someone tries it...can you give us some feedback for 2D use as well as 3D use...or is it overkill to use it for 2D work?
potato analogy - nice one, spud
-
If we stuck with the status quo all the time, we'd still be with the DOS command line.... ;-)
I have a lot of sympathy with the idea of toggling your palettes on/off, which to be fair, I hadn't noticed you could do until reading this thread. I might even start doing this myself, to get that glorious large drawing area of which you speak. I think this will be less and less successful though, as the program, inevitably, gets more complicated, and as competitor applications develop their interfaces along dynamic lines.
I'd like to hope, as Christiaan says, that we could all be happy - if palettes could be torn off, and then toggled on/off, this would surely give you something like you have now.
-
Yep, toolsets are good as they stand. The new MS approach is just taking that to a new level. You can imagine a large part of the interface changing when doing 3D editing, as opposed to 2D, for instance. A dynamic UI like this can actually save screen real estate by switching large parts of the interface around, depending what you're doing.
A CAD/BIM application is a good place to be doing things like this with the interface, as there are so many different tasks that are undertaken on a project using the same software - sketching, drawing, detailing, scheduling, annotating, massing, modelling, visualising, etc. The interface could be quite dynamic based on the task.
-
And the Evaluation Copy isn't a download option due to file size I presume (after reading the thread about selling it as a download)?
Can't you distribute it on Bittorent...?
-
We use a script to export class names to a text file. Someone in my office gave it to me - he may have borrowed part of the code from elsewhere - apologies if you recognise it (I'll amend this post to credit you if so) - CREDIT, PERHAPS, TO PETRI! ;-)
I made a VSM menu item out of it and added it to my workspace
Get rid of the Attributes Palette.............Altogether
in Wishlist - Feature and Content Requests
Posted
Not sure I can amend it? I would remove the word 'altogether' if harmony might break out as a result..
Often the case, granted. It's difficult to write standards for your workflow though, when an application is designed for a different workflow (or indeed has to be all things to all people), in a different country even. If I were describing my ideal CAD or BIM application for the UK architecture industry....it would naturally be a long way from what we have with VW. I'm just spending my time in these forums trying to edge NNA towards enabling our workflow, without, hopefully, disabling somebody else's.
So, NNA, I'd love to have attributes on the OIP. Others would like the option of a separate Attributes palette too. Can't be too hard?