Patrick Gilbert

Robert He was using Vw version 8.He was not slamming Vw just pointing out what he thought were it's limitations. He also said that version 10 looked "amazing". Re the parametrics that is a double edged sword. It is great for linking the parts to the assembly and then being able to change a governing sketch or part and have all the constrained parts change. But this is also time consuming and not so great when you are building a one off or a short run because speed becomes more important than parametrics. Anyway, Thanks that helped me to understand Vw a little better. Pat

Hi Mkm Thanks for the reply. The reason this came up is there is an architect on the Sw newsgroup who has been using Vw for a while and wants to switch to Sw. He said that Vw was not accurate,intelligent or parametric. This suprised me.Anyway I was trying to gain an understanding of what he was refering to and if this is important to me or not. Thanks Pat

Hi all Could you guys give me some insight what advantages Vectorworks might have over Solidworks? I have been using Sw since 98 and am considering changing to Vw because of the speed that it apparently has. Sw is unlimited but does not have the speed in assemblies that Vw apparently has.We do millwork and interior cad looks like the cat's meow. Thanks Pat

I have been playing with the eval version of Vw it doesnt look like putting holes in objects is easy or possible? Am I missing something? Thanks Pat

Robert yes that is what I wanted to know, thank you very much. Pat

Robert It is German software that is a bolt on to Vectorworks. They have about 1200 users in Germany I'm told. It might be called Interiorworks or Interiorcad not sure. Interiorcad utilizes some sort of data base that generates the ancillary data ie task times and bill of materials from the drawings so I'm assuming that it comes through the data base in Vectorworks.If there is no Odbc then would that mean the data comes through the Api?

Hi Robert Could you tell me how Intrerior cad extracts data from Vectorworks, apparently not via odbc.I have a feeble understanding of programming but I would like to get a grasp on how it basically works to help understand potential limitations in this area.

"If the guy was able to do that and not change the thickness of the drawer box sides, it is a function of Interior works. I had to write a script to get around that problem." Ok I get it now Thanks "What I have is a library of 2d symbols of cab types drawn in front elevation. All the parts are drawn in the symbol and given a class like 'drawer front'. Depth info is in an attached record, as is hardware and labour. The database function in v-works can look at the whole drawing and list all the parts in 'front','drawer bottom',etc and report their dimensions. That's the parts list." Solidworks does not have a data base,that is a huge difference! It can also report total area of the different classes - materials list. Plus various combinations of lengths and perimeters to get total edgebanding. And it can see records so it can get total hinges or labour or anything else you want to attach. Yes that would be very beneficial, Im suprised at how much functionality is built into Vw. "This info is fed to a spread-sheet for further processing....area x waste allowance/32 and so on." That would be ok for estimating but I would like to see some way of actually nesting(we use a cnc router)as there are times when that method would not be very accurate "The last part was the hardest. I needed a script to change cab sizes in a manner that wouldn't change thicknesses of parts. That wrecks the parts list and obviously we don't use 1 1/16" melamine.So for eg it lengthens shelves and moves sides. We work bottom up on 32mm, so a change in height only changes the top drawer front on a base cab." "Basically it is what you see is what you get.Draw a rectangle and call it a front and it is seen as such in the parts list and the estimating sheet." "The other thing that v-works is really good at, and is the reason we got it in the first place is lay-out. On complicated reception counters we used to draw a full sized layout and build right on top of it, base on up cutting parts to fit. Now we cut the parts all at once, just like a basic box. This allows building out of order. We had a rush job like that last week and we had 4 guys working on it at once and a glass shop making curved parts to match. The first time it was fully assembled was on site." "It sounds to me like you probably already have that working for you. I mention it in case you haven't cause it's a huge benefit. It also means you don't have a guy tying up a $25,000 saw fitting mitres piece by piece." I do that now with Sw but that give me an idea that I could draw a sketch to parametricaly govern the cabinets within the room. But usually I do what is called a top down design or assembly ie the part is created from the boundaries of the other parts it works well but appears to be slower than Vw. Also changing assemblies in Sw can be tedious as it is easy to have error in the relations of one part to another. "Thanks for the info on the other software. I guess what I meant was not so much easy as workable. My little set-up would be next to impossible to put into another shop unless I worked there." I must say I'm very impressed with the speed and flexability of Vw that has always been one of my complaints about Sw. (Sw is not so much for assemblies but very good at intricate shaped parts like injection molds and sheet metal) Sounds like you have created a pretty good system. Interior Cad looks pretty good and I think I will buy Vw and try the beta of Interiorworks. But until they have the complete package through cnc it falls short of what is really needed in the real world.I'm hopeful as they do have 1200 users in Germany so they appear to be for real. I dont know how many users Ware or Vision or Psi have but all bet it is not much more than that.

One other question: In the demo the Interioworks guy was able to grab a corner of a drawer assembly and move it to a position on an ajoining part when he did this it also shrunk the whole drawer assembly and the parts inside of it. Is this a vector works feature or a Interior works function?

Maybe you need to take a trip to Germany to see this thing in action! If that is what it takes I'm willing "Spent too much money on software in the past that fell well short of expectations...." Do I smell Autocad/Pattern Systems? That didn't work too well for the shop I was in 8 years ago. Autocad is great for designing space shuttles, but it's a little much for our needs. No Jobboss erp software 15k+ had a guy setting it for months. Solidworks 10k with support I think prices will fall as the market grows and new packages start to compete. Could be hasn't for the other programs though I've been able to do estimating, parts lists, material lists and more using the existing features of Vectorworks: a library of symbols,worksheets, records and vectorscript.No cnc, but the parts lists are 100% accurate as long as I input the right stuff. This is only for the basic casework, and I can't imagine another shop using it, but it's free...except for the hours and hours I spent figuring it out. I think the big money goes into making a program that's easy to understand, easy to use and easy to customize. Do use a database or spreadsheet for this? All the programs below are anything but easy some next to impossible so where ever the $ went it wasnt into making them easy. I didn't know there was a solution for commercial millwork that will handle such things as curved reception counters easily. What is that one called? Keytrix- big bucks but good only down fall is not good on graphics Imos- really big bucks and have heard some horror stories Pytha- dont know anything about them Rapid Engineer(Pattern Systems)-a buddy of mine bought it about 1 1/2yr ago and shelved it and no cnc link Microvellum-Big bucks and sloooooow

I looked at Interior Cad via a net demo and the phone(cant wait to see my phone bill for a 2 hour call to germany) I have to admit it looks very impressive.But the difference between the big packages and the smaller ones seems to be in cnc integration and the ability to handle all the wierd stuff we have to build for the commercial market.But they really do have a very good start on it but will have to see if they really do come out with cnc capablity as for us this is a must. The other question in my mind is that the software has to really work ie accurate cut lists or cnc output, Not a small thing. I cant help but wonder if the woodworking software is about to go though a evolution to the next level. I remember when the only software for accounting was big bucks and then quickbooks came out and did almost the same processes for under $200.00. Will have to see. Spent too much money on software in the past that fell well short of expectations to want to jump to any conclusions. Pat

I think around $1000.00 for Interior Works. I'm concerned because it is too cheap? Most other packages that have similiar capability are around 25-40k? Pat

Matthew Thanks for the response A couple of questios if I may I'm assuming Vw is a true solidmodeler?,is Vw boundry based or Parametric or both? Does Vw have associative Drawings and parts? I have been using Sw for about 5yr its not that tough to learn, Im interested in Vw as Im interested in Interior Cad which at first glance looks very impressive Thanks Pat

I'm curious how these two compare any thoughts? Thanks Patrick

Hi Mkm Could you answer some questions? 1 How does the estimating portion of Interior Cad Work? Does the estimating portion allow the user to attach labor to each piece for example if a piece has edge banding on it does the Interior cad attach labor to the piece for edge banding to that piece? Or do you just assign pricing to a cabinet? 2 Will the estimate be separate or will it integrate to the job if it turns into a job? 3 Is Interior Works parametric on all items or just on the angled cabinet they use to show off Interior Works? 4 Does Interior Works put something out that could be used by a 3rd party nesting program such as Cad code? 5 Cad code requires that the dxfs be in a layered format will Interior Cad do that? If not will Interior Cad out put in an mdb (access format) or an excel format? Cad code will work with either of these? What is the estimated time before the cnc portion will be out? 6 Are there any cnc users that use Interior Cad in Germany? If there is how do they use Interior Cad with the cnc equipment? In the U.S. a lot of use a cnc router instead of saws and a ptp not sure if that is the case with Germany? Pat