Bart Rammeloo

quote: Originally posted by parella: So I am not sure, but i believe you can export the surface Nurbs of VW to C4D if you previously convert them into meshes or 3d polys... is that right? Yes: conversion to mesh solves it. But in the case of the Crosslight lamp, mentioned by Kevin, I used the original cilinders before adding them as volumes with the lowest 3D-conversion value in the VectorWorks settings, exported them, and used that as a basis for a C4D HN-object. The reason for doing this instead of using the conversion to mesh is that the model contained too many CV's for conversion. The problem that arises with using meshes instead of straight NURBS is that, to smooth things out, C4D uses what is called a Phong tag (or smoothing tag). Meshes very often produce erroneous smoothing, meaning that smooth parts aren't rendered smooth. You might call it "Phong artifacts". You can solve this by deleting unneeded edges in C4D, or by unbreaking phong breaks, but this takes a lot of time and work. Maxon is currently examining how they could improve the exchange from VW to C4D (and back), especially the NURBS-problem, but also the concept of history, but I have no further information yet. Kind regards, BaRa [ 08-15-2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: BaRa ]

O.K., my 2 cts: (1) The plugin that regulates data transfer between VW and C4D is a first-timer. Maxon is currently developing the second version. The plugin cannot, and never will be able to, seamlessly exchange data. For instance, VW can use NURBS surfaces, C4D doesn't know NURBS surfaces. But what the plugin is really good at is letting you update your scene in C4D. Two of the most important things lacking is (a) support for symbols and (b) the possibility to set the scale when importing in C4D. (2) C4D has about the fastest render engine currently available on the market. You can go faster with Mental Ray, but you wouldn't want to get into that. For the same result, C4D is faster than Artlantis. (3) Artlantis is great if you want fast and decent results. It will improve your render results sigificantly. But it also has its limits. For instance, you cannot add 3D objects to the scene (trees, people, cars, ...) in Artlantis - you would have to do that in VW. This means that you get top-heavy scenes in Artlantis, rendering pretty slow, if you would add a couple of 3D-cars in VW. (4) Artlantis isn't scalable. You cannot add 50 lights and expect it to stay stable. It doesn't always handle home-made textures well (missing references). Lots of polygons aren't handled well either. (5) C4D is a professional solution, BUT it requiers more knowledge to get it working, it's more expensive (including libraries, Advanced Render, etc.), and if it isn't important for getting your proposal sold, you will not gain anything. If you're interested: a couple of renderings made with C4D can be found at the following website - just follow the C4D-link: La Place BaRa Cheers, BaRa

Charlene, you're my heroin I hereby humbly step back. I completely forgot that VW had those two options (knots and CV's). Problem solved, no need to say more. Although it would be nice to have a rebuild option AND loft history. On a side note: it think VW would benefit from a PowerPack only manual. Any plans there? Kind regards, BaRa [ 08-15-2003, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: BaRa ]

Thanks for the explanation, Biplab, but I'm afraid it's not completely correct. Try the following: (1) draw a curve with the NURBS curve tool. Makes sure it's not a flat curve. (2) duplicate it 2 times. By duplicating, you can be sure they have the same parametrization. (3) connect it with the loft tool. (4) the results is a surface with more CV's than you started out with, despite using 3 identical curves. This the image before lofting, with identical curves and with a total amount of 12 CV's: And this is the result after lofting, with a total amount of 18 CV's: If I do the same thing in Rhino, Maya or StudioTools, I have no change in the amount of CV's. I know Maya and StudioTools have a different kernel than VW, but if I am not mistaken, Rhino uses SMlib. So assuming Rhino uses the same NURBS-kernel as VW, why does it happen in VW? Kind regards, BaRA P.S.: in Rhino, Maya and StudioTools you have the option to rebuild your curves, but you can also choose not to. Perhaps it would be handy to have that option included in the loft tool? It would mean a lot to people who want to change the shape of the surface after lofting. Or you could include history in the loft operation - in that case curve rebuilding wouldn't matter that much, because you could use the original curves to modify the surface. Either way, the current situation doesn't cut it, I'm afraid [ 08-15-2003, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: BaRa ]

Hi all, I'm running into strage problems using the loft tool. The resulting surfaces don't always have the expected amount of CV's. Take a look at the following page: lofted surfaces This problem makes it very difficult to create clean models in VW, because you would have to start out with a flat surface in order to keep the amount of CV's down, and I fear that is not the way most people would work. Anyone? Thanks in advance and kind regards, BaRa

First part of a tutorial at la place bara Choose VectorWorks, go to the end of the page where it says Crosslight. WARNING: currently, it's Dutch only. Let me know if anyone wants it in a translated form. Cheers, BaRa Edit: Second part of the tutorial has been added. [ 08-13-2003, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: BaRa ]

or maybe one day VectorWorks will learn how to use viewports, and then the problem is solved as well. I really believe that the concept of viewports would be a very powerfull add-on to VectorWorks. Kind regards, BaRa

I would be surprised if you would get any information on that subject. NNA tends to be very secretive about it. But Katie: you're allowed to surprise us Kind regards, BaRa

And you post this in the wishlist because ...?

Kong, I don't have a problem constructing that shape, but I do have a problem with the fact that the combine command doesn't work in this case. I can find no logical reason for this. Biplab said you probably cannot combine discontinous surfaces, but the Connect and Combine tool (in the 2D-pallette) does exactly that. At least, that's what the movie shows. So my guess is there's something wrong with implemention of the combine command. And about the movie: I can download it without any problem, even after clearing my cache. Thanks for replying Kind regards, BaRa

Doh ***Bara slaps forehead *** My appologies, oh master, for being so ignorant Thanks for reminding me, bipblab. Kind regards, BaRa

I think you can combine them, but not with that tool. Take a look at the following movie: dual object combine However, this should also work when the edges are adjacent or overlapping. Right now, I have to move the U's or the V's of the top edge to get a straight angle again. Cheers, BaRa [ 08-08-2003, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: BaRa ]

When I try to combine the following two nurbs surfaces into one, nothing happens: It works with other configurations like curved surfaces, but not with this one. I can't use the connect tool on this one either. Any reason? Kind regards, BaRa

Hi, Can anyone tell me why NURBS curves are not drwan as continous curves on my screen, but rather as different straight interconneted parts? I would suspect that, if VW is able to draw bezier splines in a correct way (without angular parts), that the app. would also be able to draw NURBS curves flawlessly. But it doesn't, so: Why? Kind regards, BaRa

keep on wishing Seriously though, what you ask is not doable. We already have a not too bad exchange, although there's much left to be desired. What exactly would you like to see improved? Kind regards, BaRa

unlike other CAD packages, you can easily start out on your own with VectorWorks. As a lot of other users I just started using it, the manuals on the left of me and a bowl of patience on the right . You have to keep one thing in mind though: it is a good thing to follow a couple of introductory courses, because that way you will immediately learn the most efficient way to do things. Good luck and kind regards, BaRa

Hi, VectorWorks is capable of outputting two filetypes that can be imported in 3DMax. The first one is DXF/DWG. The advantage of those is that you can use the layers to make a distinction between different materials or object types. Perhaps you will even be capable to update your scene in Max when your DWG has changed (as is possible with ACAD), but I have never tried it and can't right now - I don't have Max at hand. Disadvantage is that VectorWorks doesn't use Solids as known in ACAD. As long as you make polygonal geometry, you have no problems. But when you start using what is known as PowerPack (NURBS in VectorWorks), you won't be able to export this data to DWG/DXF without converting it to a mesh first. Of course, if "organic" geometry is important, you can always export it from VectorWorks as IGES, which as far as I remember is supported by Max. The disadvantage is that you don't get the layer system as you do in DXF/DWG - not as far as I know. To summarize: 3D in VW is much more versatile and flexible than in ACAD (and i have a 3 year 3D-ACAD experience to back up my opinion), so you will have better performance. Exchanging however will demand a couple of tests before you can take of. I have no doubt it will be possible to exchange, but you should first run a couple of tests - those will save you time in the long run. If you want, I can post some files that you could try to open in Max - I'm curious about the best workflow Kind regards, BaRa

Dag Peter, You have two ways of creating 3D buildings in VectorWorks: either you use the layer system to stack the different parts of your building on top of each other. The fastest way to do this is by using walls, floors, columns, roofs and so on. You draw them in plan, and they exist in 3D. Or you do it by hand, meaning that you build a model in the traditional way - like you would build a realworld 3D model, cutting out the walls out of some sheet material. Both methods have their pros and cons, but the second method is the easiest one to start out with. It takes a bit of skill to use the first one, especially if you want to use the 2D-component as a plan representation as well. To be complete: most of the time both methods are mixed. It almost always depends on the project and the amount of time that you have. Have you ever built a 3D-model in VW before, or would this be the first time? And if you have, how did you proceed? Kind regards, BaRa P.S.: if you're looking for someone who could give you some "decent" training, you could always get in touch with Nicoline from Enyacad - with my regards

Hi Peter, Judging by your name you're either Flemish or Dutch. In that case you might be using a Benelux version of the software, including specialized (loalized) functions, which will speed up the process considerably. If that's the case, you can drop me an email at bart@designexpress.be and I'll see what I can do to explain. Kind regards, (of met vriendelijke groeten, zoals je wil) BaRa

quote: Originally posted by christian: 1. I create a closed polygon with the Bezier curves. 2. Extrude Z to 0mm. 3. Convert the shape to NURBS. 4. Edit the shape by increasing U & V degrees to 2 and move the central set of U vertices to –50mm in the Z axis. 5. Shell Solid with thickness of 100 6. Blend Edge top face with 50mm radius 7. Blend Edge bottom face and it fails – changing radius etc doesn’t make any difference. Step 2 and 3 can be combined into one single step: Convert to NURBS surface. But apart from that: same problem here. It does work however if you convert your object to NURBS, ungroup, add solids and Blend Edge again. [ 08-04-2003, 05:59 AM: Message edited by: BaRa ]

Perhaps I'm not familiar with a "membrane roofing system", but in my opinion your question is a bit vague... Do you want to create tent-like structures? Have you any experience with 3D in VW? Touched NURBS yet? Cheers, BaRa

link has been fixed.

I haven't got a problem emailing it, but I don't think it is worth the trouble: it's really just showing how you can use the loft tool to make the spoon - way too simple to make a fuzz. So you can find it here: http://users.pandora.be/laplacebara/spoon.mov Let me know when I can remove it. Cheers, BaRa

Hello Ariel, How and where should I do that - I mean: where on the site? Kind regards, BaRa

yes, which means you have to take extra steps to get the CV in the right place. Thanks for the confirmation And while we are at it: may I congratulate you with your excellent work on VectorWorks Powerpack? Cheers, BaRa