Gadzooks

Surely your office/company has examples? Follow the company style and/or what is required by the build contractor - they may have particular requirements. (But you should already be aware if this is the case) If you've drawn it accurately, then the resulting dimensions will be accurate. Errr....unless you don't dimension accurately, so make sure you understand how the dimensioning tools work. This isn't something that can be taught via a forum. Happy to try and help if you have a particular issue with dimensioning.

Yes, I can see the problem. Think this is the time to just suck it up and work with it rather than against it. So, Is there a reason to utilise a symbol (obviously you would if it worked!) because, for this drawing, there appears to be no reason you would want to go back and make any 'global' changes to all instances. There's the file size, but you could probably cope? Or, Maybe if the leccy and gaz (sic) boxes need to be annotated on your plans and you want to stick with the power a symbol offers, keep with just the coloured 'key' showing the box only, and place a legend somewhere on plan. I realise this is no good if you have copious notes on other symbols, but I'm not sure what they have in the way of information. Finally for symbol placement remember you can click and hold the symbol as its placed and then rotate to to position you want it to be. For this to work to your advantage you can utilise the 'on next mouse click' for symbol origin when you create it. Which you appear to have done on the example you've posted, as its on a corner of the plan layout.

Ive had a look at this. Although I don't count myself qualified - I'm just prepared to slog away at it as I know someone else on this great forum would do that for me. But this now has me beat. You'll have seen my thoughts on this to @Andrew Davies. In the end I wasn't sure wether the mix of 3d and lettering is just VW trying to make the best of where it thinks you want to view the 'space' you've created. What I am sure of is that ditching your symbol and converting it to a group seems to be rock solid and will reliably flip the text for you. As long as Adjust Flipped Text is set in the Document settings. I assume this is what you've found? What is clear is the hint panel that tells you that this option if chosen will flip text so its always legible in groups and symbols IS A LIE.

Kevin - I assume all these similar problems are 'fixed' by opening in 2016? If so, good job we were all offered a rebate on 2017 ;) @Andrew DaviesI'm just concluding that this thread displays similar characteristics to your problem with text. @Kevin McAllisterDid you see Andrew's question about text in symbol? Similar once again - Do you think its connected?

Happy to help, although I was concerned I might not have quite understood the complexity. If you say it changes when zoomed I'd be interested to see the video or maybe you can post the file?

Laughable if it weren't so serious and costs valuable time to practices who buy into VW with such blind faith (good band, but I digress). Seems big changes always trumpeted, but errors swept under the mat.

(I'm still in the cup'd) @Kevin McAllister- yes, similarities but annoyingly different. Plus, I don't see Modify>Compose helps - Did you try this, as it doesn't work for me. Unfortunately Hammy has groups rather than symbols so its really a problem on the old drawings that have numerous instances that would need every one changed. @hamrocksThe following proposal doesn't fix the reason for the symbols drawing incorrectly. As we all seem to be now concluding, I think this could be a bug as the end point handle has been allowed to stray and VW doesn't know what on earth to do with it?. But it may help you to take a different strategy with the numerous drawings that have this problem to save some tedious work - assuming you've not already come up with this yourself. Using classes (thank goodness you used classes), will allow you to find all the culprit symbols on the layer. Once the little critters have been identified and highlighted go to Modify>Convert>Convert to Polygons. This will leave you with them all grouped, but you can always Modify Group to (say) change the position of one or two. I assume that this will be a help on the older legacy files you have and will allow you to print etc. As for the new work, you will probably create a 'clean' symbol and start afresh. Hope this helps and - can I come out of the cup'd?

Probably shouldn't make your day worse, (why are you then??) but if it had been a symbol you'd fixed it just the once for all your drawings. (I'm going to go and lock myself in a cup'd now until I'm allowed out)

Hi - I'm still interested to crack this one. Kevin is definitely the main man, so don't want to steal the show, but looking at your file it opens in Top/Plan View. Have you seen what happens as soon as you change to Top View. Is this something that helps for the moment? (No? - I can hear you tearing your hair out from here) OK - It seems to be a problem with the arc as it has a 'floating' control. I just tried messing with this by duplicating one of your groups and doing this......(sorry I'm no good with video etc, but I think this proves a solution) The original groups on the same page (not unsurprisingly) returned to being AWOL Kevin will probably be able to identify why the arc handle is outside the arc - I would think it may well have been drawn incorrectly or have been corrupted?? BTW - I think you should then change your group to a symbol (most likely with the '2' as part of it) as you're using it to better advantage (file size) then. Over to you Kev...

Hamrocks - (on my earlier post) you will have seen that, with the layer elevation set to anything other than 0, it seemed to trigger the problem. Can you check this with your file. If you are using a '+' level it would be good to test back at zero and see if the problem persists. Not a fix, but at least it may confirm its connection to the bug.

Hi - The way I see it is that Vectorworks is working correctly with the information you've provided to it using 3D symbols. The image you've posted is in 3D 'space', albeit arranged to show a fairly simple 2d layout of numbered tiles. In this respect vectorworks can never know which way you want to view the tile layout. Let's say you wanted to look at the tiles in the vicinity of 'view c' from the underside. The tiles would now be seen to be at the top (north) of the layout and would be correctly displaying the number you've assigned. The change of 3D viewpoint is critical I believe. If you always want to use (that's to say view) as a 2d plan layout with views (ABCD) annotated as shown, I suggest you flip the 3D symbols to the correct orientation of the numbers so they'll display upright. More likely this is a 2d layout and should stay as such. I hope I've understood your problem correctly. Happy for you to give me a kick if I've massively missed the point.

I'm on Mac as well. Although I don't expect it to relate to Mac only - happy to play around with a file if you post it.

Hamrocks - this looks like a version of the issue I highlighted recently and has been logged as a bug. https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/50647-group-manipulationreshape-not-working/ If you could post a file with an example of this it may be easier to confirm. @Marissa FarrellWill most likely be able to comment in more detail.

A light hearted look at VW on a Friday.....so don't gang up on me! Ok - I've obviously got too much time on my hands, but using the North Arrow Tool why do the Configs that actually use an N - 1,6,7 and 10 not register dead centre? Unfortunately (must be I'm a little OCD) I see this straight away. Decompose them and run a vertical centreline to prove. I'm no graphic artist, but typographically an N doesn't warrant standing off centre does it? I don't call it being picky, I call it knowing what I don't want.

The rotate and flip commands are (as the menu hints state) for 'rotating' and 'mirroring' the highlighted object - so in that respect it does exactly what it says on the tin (that statement may be more obvious to Brits, so sorry if its not) Assuming I've interpreted your question correctly and you want alternatives to the basic operation, introduce a locus next to or within your object's bounding box and (with both highlighted) the operation Command/Control L (and/or the use of the additional shift with R,H and V) will rotate/flip the 'whole'. Just needs a bit of experimentation on where you would like the locus to be placed to give the desired result. This will work with any number of individual items + the (very useful) locus provided you highlight all of them at the same time. Bear in mind if grouped they will behave as 'one' and will use the (default) centreline which I believe is what you are trying to find alternatives for. If you need to have them grouped for convenience just 'edit group', carry out the flip operation to suit your requirements and 'exit group'. Hope this helps

There is free/cheap software that will allow you to change the default meta data as seen with the pdf 'inspector'. Your pdf reader (Mac or windows) may already have this. Just get into the habit of adding the additional info before you file on the server. The info will then be available to a later reader when wanting to find the parent file. Staff must always do it before filing though! I'm not techie myself so can't suggest a more advanced computing solution. I just work with the tools I have! Alternatively, and useful - as its far less 'techie' and more up my street - just arrange your back-up server hierarchy with folders for each individual drawing produced for a contract (obviously within a 'contract' folder). Then when you produce pdfs make it the company rule to place them in the correct folder (so its already with its source VW file) so history/link can be seen. They can be aliased (Mac) or shortcut (PC) so you can arrange them in another workgroup folder for looking up (say) useful roof details - where you find the detail that you like and then can open the vw file it was sourced from. Once again it relies on staff being careful! Hope I've understood your problem correctly and that this might help.

I think I've finally cracked this one... Kevin (thanks for sticking with this issue), it is as you say, something to do with the layer plane settings and I believe this is it...... I assume you have opened a 'blank' doc and tried the exercise without problems. This seems to work because the defaults on the layer you are drawing on are 'out of the box'. Most users will change the settings as appropriate for their Industry. Try this - In the layer plane settings, set the layer elevation to anything but the default 0. Keeping the view to layer plane, try the square>2 lines>group flip test again. It splits! This is why both you and Marissa have (correctly) concluded its a specific file issue. I had set my blank.sta file to values above zero. On testing the options, it seems its the height above ground plane rather than other parameter - (say) the layer wall height - that influences this. BTW - if you check the layer from front view, you will see the geometry has been drawn upon the zero ground plane (as you would expect with 2D creation) - so nothing untoward in that respect. I also find - in limited testing - that the culprit is the rectangle as it doesn't seem to happen with other shapes. Do you find this? If not, please let me know what your findings are. If yes...... @Marissa Farrell I believe this is a bug. Maybe the one you were talking about? 2D objects drawn on the layer plane should 'forget' any height reference the plane has. Thanks both.

You're correct on that one - a new (blank) doc and it works as it should!! However, starting again with my blank .sta doc it is still a problem, so it does seem the issue is with that. I'll have to bin it. OK - not entirely sure were I go on this one - I'll make some changes and try to bottom it out what makes it fall-over, but weird as to how the document setup can have such an adverse affect. I'm obviously just learning the quirks of VW Thanks for your help

surely.. problems with group.vwx

this are the details before and after.. do you still need the file?

Thanks for taking a look at this Yes just a 2D rectangle and two lines which behave normally when pushed and pulled away from the centre of the group. But...Are you pulling the 'top' of the group over and resizing past the 'bottom'? To be clear, using the handles take a side fully across and past its apposing side (Imagine if it were 3D you'd be flipping it over) This inversion/flip is what seems to cause the grouped items to lose their geometry - where it shouldn't. Or or at least on my setup!

I can't work this out...is it me? My previous use of VW has always allowed a group (having been formed by placing several items together) to remain in their relative positions to each other (thats what a group is yeh?). This allows them to be squashed and shaped as 'a whole'. I have used this a lot as a way to make things fit - its a very useful side feature. This isn't happening with 2017 SP4 on a Mac I'm assuming its me - so don't come at me too hard.

Good find Christiaan. I see the webpage allows you to 'save' the blend more than once to a series of images - all at the same mix % with a randomised result. A bit more work, but this would allow you to build a larger sample image as the basis for your texture, thus minimising the dreaded image repeat on larger panels. The mortar colours don't impress, but if you choose a colour that can easily be colour picked in PS (almost an alpha) you'd be able to replace with your choice of colour from your chosen supplier. Photoshop here I come.... Designer 2017 SP4