skoorbb

Picking colors by number should be an option, as it does not limit the ability/desire to pick from a color pallette or wheel, and would improve an office's ability to develop guide sheets/standards. Limit the color by number selection to 256 colors, corresponding to the color palette, but allow thousands or millions of colors to be selected from the color wheel.

jan15, if rectangles were the solution, we could all still be using MiniCad 4 on a Wintel 286 or Mac Lisa platform. How do you draw a rectangle at a 10d angle? insert a door or window? draw a cavity wall? Your method requires mulitple initial steps and continual editing, and fails to capitalize on the advancements in the VWA cad package, particulary wall types. And the relatively new space planning tools are pretty cool...... What about 3D? (future) smart wall section cuts? Despite an unwieldy file structure and tools that no one uses, AutoCad has some superior basic 2D entry and editing tools, and those same tools are requested in this TB - trim/extend, xref, object selection, class/layer management, etc....No one wants a duplicate of AC, but the basics would be nice, and the VW inherent ease of use would not necessarily be sacrificed just because the 2D selection tool worked better. You miss the point of your own post in another thread about the nature of the public forum herein, and the responsibility for progressive wish-listing.

I agree with K. The idea - Start a line or wall, drag the cursor in the X direction (or Y direction), enter "L", and you have the endpoint. The cursor can be constrained to 90d, or every 15d, or whatever. The "L" could be set up ready to accept the number, and the X or Y could be tabbed to, if necessary. BTW, the function described mimics AutoCad. Jan15, rectangles may be faster for you, but to develop drawing and software standards, we can't all rely on that technique.

We could benefit from an Indemnification Agreement included with a .dwg export, that required the recipient to agree to terms and conditions. The IA could function like a typical software installation package, requiring the user to agree using chekbox selections, with or without a password. The Terms and Conditions could be defined by the originator of the CAD file. I know the philosophy out there about NEVER giving Cad files to others, but that policy does not match the reality of our workplace. Our clients, especially those offering repeat business, expect us to work seamlessly with their consultants. As it stands now, our insurance company (on the advice of their lawyers - god help us all...) requires a clause in our OA contract, and a separate form for any consultant not working for us. This takes time, to turn the form around, and is a hassle. With the IA, we would keep the original OA agreement, but could eliminate the separate agreement for outside consultants. This is not a Cad issue, per se, but it would be a big step for the overall Cad environment. Many firms have this capability with their Cad packages. Think of it as a challenge for all those script-writing engineers NNA must have on staff.....

Stephen, thanks for the sentiment, but you're missing the point, P Retendo, Have you tried SketchUp? And of course I'm speaking for myself, and my office, and the accomplished cad designers and technicians we can't hire because we can't offer them a comparable CAD environment..... I'm not opposed to 2D/3D cad, unless the functionality of 2D work is compromised. We do a lot of 3D work with hand drawings and models (remember school?) before the project gets to the computer. This TB is full of questions about trim/extend, stair PIO, print issues, font problems, x-ref/viewports, etc., and for all that, the maketting and R&D effort is spent developing useless scritps (SA & Task Manager). The most effective use for the SA seems to be title border set-up, which we don't need. So, we're paying upgrade fees for each version, with no increase in productivity.

agree it should be easier....diagree it should be "windows" style. windows style implies separate dialog boxes for defined functions, buried in arcane places throughout the program structure.

K, the original idea for this thread was a comment on the usefulness of the SA, and a request for an A/E firms? response effectively using the SA, but to answer your request for the wishlist database... Provide some simple class/layer tools. For example, AutoCad has a layer toolbar that allows selection of a variety of functions (like turning off or freezing a layer). Also, the layer dialog box in AC is more user-friendly and accurate than the variety of boxes in VW - the total selections of settings in AC can accomplished within 1 box. The selections in AC are more accurate; e.g., you can pick color with a number, versus VW where everyone has to know where the colored square is within the pickbox, and the color wheel is ridiculous from a production standpoint. Keep the color wheel for the artists out there, but provide another accurate simple tool for color selection. Robert, in regard to your statement way back about Model Setup functionality being useful to most users, I would encourage NNA to reveiw business models of sucessful A/E firms. (For you artists out there, success in this rant means making money....) A/E firms make their big bucks producing 2D documents quickly and accurately, not 3D stuff. When we need 3D stuff, we can perform it in house, or we sub it out, but that work becomes completely different from anything VWA can offer. The ?custom? work that most architects fall into limits their ability to explore effeciencies that is the bread-n-butter of architecture firms that get stuff built. If NNA is marketting to the Pellis, Peis & Gehrys, you?ve got a short list of potential business prospects. Secondly, to sell CAD to MEP engineers, realize they could care less about line weights and multiple layers/classes, etc., they just want their designs on paper as quicly as possible. We don?t use other cad platforms because we feel the 3D production philospohy is inherently flawed. I have yet to see a set of contract production construction documents for architecture produced in 3D. Everyone using those unnamed platforms will eventually make some mention about the usefulness of the 3D process required just to produce 2D drawings....a waste of time. For all it?s ease of use, VWA can not do simple 2D production tasks that have been available with other software for the last 4-6 years; e.g., object selection (AC allows the selection marquee to pick differently depending on the direction it is dragged), multiple copying (cc in AC), class/layer tools, viewports/x-ref flexibility, etc......we need 2D tools. We like VW, but we really like the Mac, hence VW. We are looking forward to being able to match the production capabilities of other cad software, and when we go 3D, we go elsewhere.

K, it's not the quantity, per se, but the additional work required to manage the assortment of stuff....amen to iboymatt The SA may be a computer engineers design for a solution for the VW idea of "viewports", but try again.

K, we don't use the Task Manager: 1) Becasue the Setup Assistant creates too many sheets/classes/layers anyway, developing an unmanageable drawing file, so we never get that far... 2) The Task Manager is just another diaglog box/pop-up window for checking boxes and clicking buttons, and for all that, with no increase in productivity. You spend more time editing boxes, and opening windows, and sorting through class/layer stuff than you do drawing. 3) The Task Manager represents the "Windows" mentality of gui, and not the ease of use inherent on the Mac (this here's the start of a new argument, I can hear it now....) How about some SIMPLE class and layer management tools? 4) More reasons if need be...., but ask your engineer/designers to develop bulding plans (try a 3-4 story office building), utilizing the full-blown potential of the SA and Task Manager, and see what happens.... With all due respect to the Computer Engineers who obviously spent a lot of time writing the script to create the extensive matrix of sheets/classes/layers, it is not an efficient way for us to draw. Just because you can write a scipt, doesn't mean you should..... We invested in VWA10, because of VW9 issues, hoping for a real upgrade, with the SA touted as a fantastic tool. Not the case in our office. Mat, I'd guess your house plans have 10 sheets (drawing pages) with the SA and Task Manager, where you probably could get away with 4.....

We are not using the Task Manager for a variety of reasons, some stated above. Again, If someone is using the setup assistant (in concert with the Task Manager or not) particularly to its fully designed intent, I would like to know how they do it, how long it takes, and why.......

No, we are not using the Task Manager. The last thing we want for CAD is the computer doing more computer stuff requiring more management of non-drawing stuff. The Task Manager does not solve the managment nightmare of huge lists of classes/layers/sheets created by the setup assistant. The tongue-in-cheek point of the wish list item here is our reaction to the usefulness of the set-up assistant, marketted heavily for VWA10. Try an experiment - Using the Model Setup and Create Standard Sheets commands, set up a project for a small office building. Then try to work your way around the classes and layers to draw on the correct class/layer. Even if you were to draw the item on the None class for the correct sheet, and using the OIP, select the appr class and layer, it takes too much time. Then change to a different sheet, or whatever, and try again. You'll spend more time seleting the correct class/layer/sheet then you'll spend drawing. The setup assistant creates a system that is logistically difficult to use, due to the extent of classes/layers/sheets created. If someone is using the setup assistant, particularly to its fully design intent, I would like to know how they do it, how long it takes, and why.......

We have the class structure .pdf file available for reference, but that does not help solve the logistical challenge of manuevering through the quantity of selections required in order to draw a line on a given class and layer once the set-up assistant has done its job.

In using the VWA 10 Set-Up Assistant, it creates a "matrix" of classes, layers and sheets with a possible combination of 6,000+ choices for a simple 4-story office building (or what used to be simple...). So, now we need a dedicated Management Assistant to figure it all out and help with the 3 different pull-down, pull-up and scrolling menus. If we were to use the VWA system in its current manifestation, we'll need an additional employee dedicated as comptroller for classes and layers, to help with the selection of the proper point-in-matrix space on which to draw any given item. If not a management assistant, are there any ideas on how to manage the extensive VW system? Is anyone effectively using the VWA set-up assistant? per its designed intention?

Katie (from 2 posts back - related to drawing lag time) What is a "corrupt" symbol? How are symbols corrupted? groups? By grouping items? "nested" symbols in groups? nested groups in groups in symbols? etc.... We are experiencing this problem with a large number of our VW files; e.g., 2 files about 700kb each, with 1 as a wgr. If the corrupt symbol idea is the cause for slowdowns, we've got a lot of corrupt symbols in a lot of files. How did this happen? We do not have time to go through each file clipping and pasting to find a corrupt symbol. Can a tool or script be developed to isolate groups and symbols, or whatever, to locate a corrupt symbol? Or will this be addressed with future vw releases?

cipes, This is an old problem, experienced by us in VW9.x, VWA9.x, and VWA10. No fix yet......

Tried it, not working for us..... NNA?

Ok, fix 1 & 2 above did not solve the problem. 1. That's our standard, no problem here. 2. Ran the script in the WGR and target file.....did not work. Arrows still show up. The Work Group Reference file appears fine; i.e., no arrows on the screen. The arrows show up in the target document (plot file). Without a fix, we'll be drawing all doors and windows as groups and editing the walls accordingly.

Is Graphite not showing up in the left window? Do you have an updated version of Graphite? Verify matching names in font folders... If VW has substituted Geneva (right window) for Graphite (what should be showing up in the left window), then VW should have identified a font it did not recognize (i.e., Graphite) and listed that font in the left window. So, you may have a new twist on an old problem.... This jumbled font thing has been kicking some **s for a while now....be nice to get it resolved.

Windows and doors inserted in walls develop arrow heads at line and arc ends.....what's the deal? All of a sudden, our drawings have arrowheads all over the place which can not be removed without removing the window or door in which they occur......and they occur in every instance!!!!!! We are having to redraw windows and doors with lines and arcs to avoid this problem! NNA - please tell me you know to fix this.... Using 10.0.1 on VWA10 on OS 9 & 10.

cipes Search the tech board, this is a common problem, with the solution posted several times under various headings......NNA is working on the fix, last I heard. You need to map each font to itself in the font mapping dialog box...I know, it doesnt' make sense, but do it. Literally, map "Graphite" to "Graphite". Make sure the font you want is updated.

We like the process described by Katie. We set the Dimension class visible in all layers/classes, and then, if necessary, designate on which class it should be. This allows a floor plan and rcp to be drawn in the same WGR, with the relevant classes selected per class per plan.

jcron - check your active layer and layer settings (as only 1 possibility for disappearing text). cipes - the worksheet/Geneva issue can be resolved by mapping fonts to themselves. NNA - Have you guys addressed the font/worksheet/mapping issue yet?

In the font dialog box, map each font to itself. Does everything look Ok on screen, but jumbled when plotting? Right now, VW is trying to find the font used for each "jumbled" text entry, and when it can't find "Frutiger 57", or whatever, it tries to substitute Geneva as the default. When the substitution occurs, the font gets jumbled. This has been a common problem, posted several times by our office (refer "Jumbled Text in Worksheets"), until we stumbled across the work-around, You'd think NNA would be all over this easy fix, either with a bug release or a posting.....

Are your cabinets PIOs?

In the font mapping dialog box, you need to map each font to itself (assuming you have that font in your system); literally, pick "C Univers Condensed 57" (or whatever) to match the same font VW says it can't find. If it's a new font to the VW file, VW is unable to track it down. Also, make sure you have updated your fonts - some older fonts, once updated, have a slightly different character name (by one letter, or a dash...). Sounds like you're using PCs, but within VW, this is similar to the same probem we have experienced on Macs. How do your worksheets look on screen? How do they plot?