CARMELHILL

I was looking at upgrading from VW 2012 to 2019 for some office reasons that I've discussed previously. I did a forum search about the HVAC tools, and users were complaining that they don't work, aren't plug-n-play, connections and intersections don't connect to straight runs, etc.... One user in 2017 chimed in.... "Yes, you're correct, those tools were developed as conceptual only." and another: "I think they are ripe for a serious re-work. Now that the irrigation tool is in place." That's pretty sad, that a tool was left in the user interface, just to demonstrate what's "possible???" So I held off on my upgrade enough through there was a ridiculously good offer last month. Stuff like this needs attention.

Were you backwards on #1? An expensive video card is all Chief needs and 16g of memory. The CPU is only used for Raytracing hwich is too time consuming to bother with. Chief is a great program but it lacks the 2d tools that VW has. There are a bunch of Chief guys on my other forum telling me that I should think about two platforms for my office. Oh god. I can't imagine. Chief automatically does my Rescheck for all my house projects. But again, we only received a CAD stretch tool in last years release. Yup. Last year. That's absolutely insane. Then there's the other side....another Chiefer told me he uses Chief to design his projects, and up until recently, he was using Archicad to do the construction drawings. He admited he does a lot of redrawing. Why? WHY WHY WHY? Why do that to yourself. One design change and you have to draft everything over again. Some guys use three programs.....design, renderings (Lumion), and construction drawings. Ultimately I'm pissed that a lot of programmers don't see my end game. I don't get paid to design design and design again. There are only so many revisions I will do before I get rid of the client. I won't go crazy with these pretty eye candy 360 Virtual Reality Goggles or Online Cloud based 3d Models for the client to play with. It seams the more renderings and VR you give clients, the more they want, the more they change, the more time I spend revising the design. I WANT 2D PRODUCTION TOOLS so I can wrap up the job and get paid. Production drawings pay the bills, not fanciful whimsical Richard Meyer wannabe, Gugenhim flowing, Paul Getty abstract aghhhhhh. But I digress.

I won't go to Autodesk. They switched to the subscription model. You don't pay, you lose access to all your drawing files forever. What happens in a recession, or if you get sick and need to stop for a year or two.....the bills is always due. And it's a steep bill. This is a big marketing part of Bricscad. One fee, you own it. But you also own VW and Chief. But I see more and more going the subscription route, like Adobe. Oh I hate those people.

I don't know how far I'll go with reviewing Bricscad. A real assessment requires learning the program and using it on at least one project. That's a huge undertaking when you have a full work load (sole proprietor) and 9 year old twins at home. Way back when I was single it was easy to dabble and learn new programs still 3am, but at 47 years old, I'm tired of this. I might stick to Chief and deal with it's shortcomings in commercial. It'll probably lead to less lost production time when considering reviewing a new program that might possibly be a dead end. Your comments about VW being buggy are nerve wracking. Everything in Chief works, and works awesome. There's just no tools for commercial work, keynotes, ceiling grid tools, or ability to do freeform modern residential....no slanted walls. They try to market some designs that look like Frank Lyod WRight stuff, but it's very limiting...horizontal and vertical. You can probably different stuff with solids modeling but then, so can sketchup and every other program.

I here you. I was a VW2012 user but left for Chief Architect. Now I'm in the market for something that is better at commercial work to supplement Chief for residential. Chief unfortunately Chief sucks at commercial. I downloaded the VW2019 trial and a sample 5 story office plan......the program crashed 3 times when trying to render. So that quickly answered that question. Archicad was too big a program. Now I'm reviewing Bricscad V19 Bim.

It's my understanding Autodesk switched to a completely subscription based model. You don't pay next year, then you lose access to the program to make any changes. I think you can still open the file, but that's it. You have to subscribe to Autocad LT to do anything with the file. Revit is what most people look at, as opposed to Autocad, but same thing. You lose the access. I don't think that's a good way to treat your customers. I would still buy the yearly program to get the updates, but don't extort me and my firm.

No. God no. Not in a million years no. I meant Graphisoft Archicad, probably the Solo edition to start off and work on for at least one year before deciding about a full plunge. I wonder if Vectorworks has a large enough development and programming team to ensure they come up with new features but still iron out bugs of the existing program. They have a lot of cute features and their Youtube videos every year are very snazzy. But that is all proaganda. How it all comes together when you use it everyday is what's most important and I don't want to make another mistake. Chief is great, and they release lots of updates, but I don't think they will ever incorporate anything commercial into the program.

I used VW in 2011 and was frustrated. Moved to Chief Architect for my 99% residential business. But now I need some commercial stuff. I've been watching this thread because I'm reviewing VW and AC for a second platform for next year to supplement Chief. I'm holding off until I see 2019 roll out. To see all this negativity is killer. I'm not saying Archicad is the be all, end all, but at least VW has keynotes out of the box without an add on and multi window multi monitor views, which AC still doesn't seem to have......even with AC 22.

I'm reviewing Vectorworks for a switch back, was a user in 2012, and now comparing it to another option. Unfortunately, I downloaded the user trial at the busiest office time of the year and my 30 days trial expired. Is it possible to have the trial switch, after 30 days, to non-print/non save version?

He actually steered me towards VW after talking about the size of my office and projects I would be applying towards. So not a completely negative experience. He asked that I keep them in mind for my next upgrade evaluation, in say, 10 years 🙂 I'm going to try and get into NYC for the AIA Conference and product expo. Both VW and Archicad will have booths.

I was speaking to someone at Graphisoft this morning and they told me Vectorworks wasn't truly a BIM program. Anyone care to chime in about why the rep felt that way? I'm looking to add another platform for light commercial work to supplement Chief Architect that we use for residential (it stinks for commercial). I used VW from Minicad 7 to VW 2012.

Does anyone remember the old days of Autocad, maybe release 14? The general rule of thumb was the odd number releases were horrible, and the odd number releases were great. I think 13 was a disaster. Maybe that applies here? But this will stick in my mind as I continue to review program options. I don't want to reinvent in anything that looks real snazzy, but is really half backed. The product video look and SOUND great with their catchy tunes, but they really are promotional propaganda. It's what's inside and if they work as advertised that really matters. No gimmicks.

A little background......I was using VW 2012 but switched to Chief Architect. I'm currently reviewing a switch either back to VW, Archicad, or Revit. There are zero commercial tools in Chief. But, it's rock solid. Their beta testing and bug reporting are tops. It's unfortunate it can't be used for anything commercial. I miss my VW ceiling grid tool. Jeez.....we received a stretch tool for 2d cad work this year. Isn't tha insane? So here we go........I did a webinar with the fellas at VW last week. This week the rep called to follow up. I told him I still needed more time, probably won't make a decision till later this year because my office is swamped. I have no spare time to evaluate all the trial programs. BUT BUT BUT I did mention to the sales rep that I remembered VW crashed quite a few times, was a little buggy, didn't heal roofs automatically, and wood framing isn't automatic. I remember wayback in my VW years, we received three upgrades a year. Chief releases minor bug fixes every 2 or 3 weeks. That's awesome service. But they won't add commercial tools, even after 2 or 3 years of users begging. So not all is perfect. So my point is, the sales rep also mentioned some VERY big things to come in the 2019 release that were going to address some of my comments. In the short term, I'll hold onto my 3 seats of Chief, but I'm going to supplement my office with at LEAST one seat of a more commercial friendly program. Then decide later if I need to continue a two program environment...aghhhh. Training employees is hard enough. Sorry. Hope I didn't hijack.

I haven't upgraded to 2011 yet. I'm waiting for everyon else to work out the kinks this time. I'll upgrade when service pak 3 comes out. Right now I'm working on learning Chief Architect. I'm comparing the tow programs to see if I want to switch to Chief full time. The interiors are better but I don't like the GUI, or I just am used to VW after using it for 11 years. Supposedly the 2011 renders are really fast because of the new engine, but I haven't even played with the evaluation version yet. I don't know if the render engine is part of the evaluation version.

Have worksheets in 2011 been refined at all and made easier? It seems that worksheets, material takeoffs, and budgets always seem to get NO attention in VW. I know 3D rendering sells, adn that's where they put all their programming attention, but the worksheets are WAY too complicated and way too buggy.

So does this "Extract Planar Objects" finally allow Vectorworks to really and truly draw elevations for us automatically, without having to use the time consuming and memory intensive "rendered viewport". Or is this just more fluff.

I tried to do this in VW and found it way too buggy. The program is greatly customizable but to such an extent, that it is actually a fault. They got away from VW being a friendly residential program (wood framer was a great idea) to now makin gthe program more useable for everything....commercial, machine design, spotlight, etc..I think they are trying to market to too many groups. These faults have finally driven me to look at other oprions , like Chief Architect.

I wish I knew about this two months ago. This was one of the reasons I hated VW2010. Walls and dimensions wre tied to each other with no way to stop it. You just showed me how. Dam it. Thank you.

I mightbe wrong also, but I've been playing with the trial version lately. Probably going to buy the program by the end of the month and make a gradual migration over to it during the fall. From what I see the auto elevations sets up snap shot cameras of all the elevations for you. Whatever changes you make to the model and floor plan will automatically show up in the elevations. And a big plus, the elvations have the siding and roof hatching drawn automatically. I know VW kinda does this with the rendered Viewport Elevations, but waiting for the computerto update a hidden line render with an Open GL or Final Renderworks overlay takes FOREVER. Even on my lightning fast computer. And I played with the materials list which is much better than the worksheets in VW. Basically what I've learned is, VW is great because it's so customizable. It can drawn anything....an engineering object, a house, a commercial building, etc.....But my bread and butter is regular residential housing. And Chief is totally geared towards that. I'm just mad I've been stuck on VW for the last 11 years. I should have switched to Chief years ago.

I've heard of it. They actually just sent me their promotional stuff yesterday. It's not cheap. And a few parts of it come in modules that you buy seperately. And you have to make your purchase decision at the initial purchase time. You can't add the modules later. Renders look good. Material lists look excellent. But I don't know ANYONE using it. I at least have heard of a few people using Chief. There must be a reason for that. A couple of people on the Chieftalk forum said they used it and they said the roof tool was very simple and quicker then Chief, but it was very limiting. You couldn't custumize it. They said that with Chief, if you can build it, you can design it.

Does VW have the ability to draw base trim and crown molding as part of the wall? The way I do it now is to draw a poly line path, and extrude a molding profile along that path. Is there an easier way?

I checked the InteriorCad site. Their samples of their interior kitchens look vague and detail-less. I think VW works great for modern stuff that is all slabs, extrudes, and solids. I do remember reading one thing a while back about CAD programs. They were comparing cheapo programs like Home & Garden Cad, Punch, Datacad, etc....They were saying that they often "dumb it down" to make the program easier to use. The easier it is, the less custumizing you can do. I see that with Chief and VW. You can probably do anything with VW, but it will be harder because everything is custom. Great example, why can't VW have some kind of automatic 3D feature that draws crown molding, base molding, and chair rails as part of the wall? Why do I need to draw it as a profile and extrude it along a path? That's stupid, and too many steps. I'm pretty sure Chief does it easier. I played with the trial today and it definitely has that ability with kitchen cabinets. I don't know i fthey are custom enough for you, but I was impressed. BTW, I think you REALLY need to jump to 3d.

Oh my god I'm blushing. Thank you very much for the kind words.

I always like walking down the aisle at Staples and checking out the cheap cad software on the shelf. It's truly amazing what some of those cheap cad programs can do for an interior or a deck. It takes me forever to get a decent kitchen interior done. That, and the buggy reports and worksheets for materials lists is what's pushing my current review of Chief Architect. From what I see so far, it's only limitations are it's lack of customizability for commercial work, and I hear that it's 2d line work is a little difficult when it comesto drawings a detail library. I do almost soley residentials. I've been trying to do more interior shots for clients, and I've also been trying to add material and budgets lists. But I gotta say, why have all these fields and settings, if half of them don't show up in the reports correctly. Buggy as hell. One of the VW techs emailed me a prototype house they were doing to showcase VW abilitis for doing a custom home with lots of reports and schedules. He actually told me in the mail that he had to stop because the reports and schedules were too buggy. A VW tech actually said that. Geez. Enough with the upgrades. Fix the dam program already. Check my website for the type of work I usually do and tell me if you think VW or Chief Architect is the way to go. www.CARMELHILL.com Anyone have comments?

Does anyone have a worksheet for material take offs they could email me for review while I try to create one for my office? Or even direct me to a web store to purchase one. It bugs me that VW doesn't at least come with a few templates to do quantity take offs. You have to be a freakin genius to understand vectorscript. Thanks. carmelhill@optonline.net