jan15

Oh, I like Antone's method better. I never thought of doing that, but I tried it just now and it works great. Thanks, Antone.

First issue: I'm not sure what you mean by "go haywire ...different sizes etc", but it sounds like it might be a scale issue. AutoCad only knows one scale, which is 1:1, so to avoid confusing AutoCad I always convert a whole VectorWorks file to 1:1 scale before exporting to DWG. If you want to try that, be sure to check the "Scale Text" box in the "Layer Scale" window. Issue 2: AutoCad doesn't have both Classes AND Layers. It only has Classes, which it misleadingly calls "Layers". So you have to decide whether you want to export Classes OR Layers as AutoCad "Layers", and indicate that by checking a box in the "DXF DWG Export Options" window. --If you choose to export LAYERS as AutoCad "Layers", then there's an option to export invisible Layers either as invisible "Layers" or not at all. --If you choose to export CLASSES as AutoCad "Layers" (this is the default setting, since Acad "Layers" are really Classes; they aren't layered one on top of another), then invisible Layers are not exported. To export those invisible Layers, you have to change to the sheet on which they're visible, and then export a separate file showing the contents of that sheet. Issue 3: I don't know anything about this, since I never try to work with the junk files that are typically produced in AutoCad (I just import them to trace from, or occaisionally to use as a grey background). But I wonder what you mean by AutoCad 2000 "walls". Do you mean MLines? Clarifying that may help someone else to answer your question.

I keep a symbol called "arrowhead" for this purpose. It consists of a short line with an arrowhead. The length of the line is less than the length of the arrowhead, and the arrow points to the left, with the insertion point at the tip of the arrowhead. I can insert it at any scale, placing it on the end of a curving polyline. Any slight motion before releasing the mouse button snaps to a nearby point on the polyline, and the arrowhead is inserted pointing exactly the right way to serve as an arrowhead for the curved polyline.

quote: What needs to be added is the rightclick/enter key to end selection of objects... No! That would be a disaster. In AutoCad, you need that, because you're always selecting a long list of objects, one by one. But in VectorWorks, you arrange related objects into Layers and Groups, so selection is much easier, and it's rare to have to use more than a few picks or selection boxes. Having to hit the Enter key every time you select something would be a terrible drag on speed and the easy feel of the program.

Or, if the shading is done by a "Hatch" (rather than by a "Solid" or a "Pattern"), the hatch pattern can be made see-through by un-checking "Background Fill" in the "Edit Hatch" window for that particular hatch pattern. Then it won't matter if it's on top or not -- it will only consist of the hatch lines, with no solid fill. Another advantage of see-through hatch patterns is that you can have two different types of shading that overlap -- for example, slanted lines to indicate the easement area, and stippling to indicate pavement.

Perhaps David is thinking of the AutoCad ability to re-size each iteration of a Block. I never found a use for that feature, but I knew of other people who liked it. Some structural engineers, for example, liked to have just one Block for all wide-flange sections, and to re-size each iteration of it for the width and height of the WF in that location. But I don't think they were particularly interested in using a Block, which like our Symbol can be edited to affect all iterations. They just wanted an easy way to copy and resize a set of objects as a unit. In VectorWorks that can be done with the Group. The so-called "Group" that AutoCad introduced in release 13 doesn't really lend itself to that purpose. If you have a Symbol which you want to place at a few alternate sizes, with many iterations of each alternate size, you can easily make each different size a separate Symbol, by inserting the iteration and then issuing the sequence "Symbol to Group", "Scale Objects", "Ungroup", and "Create Symbol". If you want to do something like the wide-flange example, but with the ability to edit all the different-size iterations globally, you can do that by assigning Class attributes. That can also include making certain objects appear or disappear depending on their Class setting of zero or non-zero line width.

Another way to do it: 1a. Draw a line starting at the center of the arrayable object. 1b. Use the "L" and "A" coordinates in the data display bar to make the length and angle of that line equal to the offset you want for the array. That gives you a visible and snappable offset vector. 2. Do a linear array by "Next Mouse Click" and click on the other end of that offset vector line. That's fairly quick for arraying a line, circle, or rectangle, since a screen hint and an audible click will tell you where its center is. You only have to draw one construction line -- the offset vector -- before selecting the arrayable object and arraying it. For a complex surface or a set of objects, there's no constraint that allows you to snap to the "center" of it. So you also have to draw a "bounding box" (the smallest rectangle that encloses either the whole surface or all the objects), and then snap to the center of that bounding rectangle to start the offset vector line. Arraying by "Next Mouse Click" places the center of the "bounding box" of the first duplicate at the mouse click point.

There is a way to make that AutoCad-like "relative move": 1. place a locus at the move-from point 2. while that locus is still selected, shift-select the object(s) to be moved 3. grab the locus and drag it to the move-to point 4. click on blank space to de-select all 5. select and delete the locus I used that workaround a lot when I first started working in MiniCad, but it's too cumbersome to use very often, and so I got used to other ways of working so that it became unnecessary. Of all the many requests I've read in this forum for AutoCad features, this proposed Relative Move tool is the only one I've seen that I would probably use occaisionally if it were available.

bonose, Why not just un-install version 9? Version 10 will open v9 or v10 files (at least on Windows machines), and will even "export" a v9 file if you want to keep that format.

Could it be a case of nested Symbols? I often find those in AutoCad files. The "Scale Objects" command doesn't work on Symbols. The "Edit Symbol" command allows you to scale the objects inside a Symbol, unless those objects are also Symbols, in which case you have to work inside the second tier, or third, or however many nestings there are, until you get to objects that are not Symbols.

I couldn't get the "Open with" method to work. The selected version of VectorWorks started to boot, but never opened the double-clicked file, and then it shut down. Luckily, I was able to use the same "Open with" option to restore the original version of VectorWorks to be the default version. But in general that "Open with" is a nice feature of Windows, which I didn't know about before. Sometimes a program that's being installed changes those file-type associations without asking (and sometimes it asks but I'm not really prepared to answer). "Open with" is a very easy way to change that association, and it worked for all file types I tried it with except .MCD files. Windows 2000pro on one machine I tried had that "Open with" option when right-clicking on a file, but Windows 98se on another machine didn't have it, not when right-clicking, and not when shift-right-clicking (though some people report that the latter works for them). I was able to add "Open with" to the Windows 98se right-click-on-filename context menu by editing the registry, using instructions found at http://www.activewin.com/tips/reg/menus_2.shtml The instructions there are clear and easy to follow, except that I think they would be clearer with quotes around "shell", "openas", and "command". Once I got the "Open with" feature to work, I found that not all programs are listed in its dialogue box (for example, only one version of VectorWorks was listed there). But there's a button labelled "Other" which allows selection of any program file by browsing through the directories.

Rotating the grid is actually very easy, especially with the macro described above. And even without macros it's usually well worth the effort, because it's rare to work on just one object at the other angle. Usually there are several objects at that angle, and the time saved in drawing and editing with the grid rotated is well worth the time it takes to pull down, click, Enter, and drag-click. I still don't understand what you mean by "u&i keys". And "holding down the shift key to use the midpoint resize handles". Is that a Mac only feature? Nothing happens when I hold down the shift key in Select mode.

But with the right hand on the mouse, it's constantly moving back and forth between the mouse and keyboard. Half the user's time is spent moving the right hand between devices. With the left hand on the mouse, it never leaves the mouse except for typing text (which is done much less often than drawing operations). We type data (numbers) all the time while drawing, and that can be done much faster on the numeric keypad -- and only with the right hand -- at the same time that the left hand is moving the mouse. It's the old draftsman's joke become reality: you can draw with both hands! I didn't understand what you meant by "the u&i keys".

Kristen, I don't use Mac any more, but I remember that Sue Steeneken reported this exact same problem a couple of years ago: http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000210 That thread only has a workaround, but maybe you can e-mail her to see whether it was finally solved. Her profile includes a link to her web site.

It's not hard to find a keyboard with the keypad on the left, but remember that you would have to train your left hand to touch-type the keypad, just as you had to train your right hand. Left-mousing requires no training; it feels awkward, but only for the first few days. Mousing isn't like writing. It takes no more dexterity than erasing a chalkboard. If you think about it, it's the same motion, and the same hand position. As far as age is concerned: a friend of mine switched to left-mousing at age 60 and had no problem with it.

Prodded by this discussion, I finally confronted the problem of re-sizing rotated-rectangle Polygons, and I found that there's already a pretty good way to do it! It works in all versions of VectorWorks. By setting "Grid Angle" to align with the rotated-rectangle Polygon, and selecting the "2D-Reshape" tool, you can grab the center of any side of the rotated rectangle and drag-stretch it (just as you would drag-stretch a non-rotated Rectangle with the "Select" tool, including entering the desired new length or height in the "Data Display Bar" if you wish. Actually, it's a little quicker in this case to enter the new dimension, so that you can enter a zero for the other dimension rather than trying to stretch exactly in the direction intended). This method only works for re-sizing length OR height, one at a time -- not both at once as you can when drag-stretching a corner of a Rectangle with the "Select" tool. It's not as quick as using the "Select" tool to drag-stretch a non-rotated Rectangle, but it compares favorably with the method referred to in this thread, of using the "Object Info" palette to re-size a Rectangle; assuming that, like any sensible computer user, you've figured out that the left hand is the appropriate hand for the mouse, leaving the right hand free to operate the numeric keypad, which selects coordinate boxes on the "Data Display Bar" and fills them with values, and also free to select Tools via the letter keys and to issue Commands and Command sequences via the function keys, which in turn presupposes that you use a keyboard macro utility to map each of the 24 function keys on your Focus 8200 keyboard to a Command or sequence. The general discussion in this thread assumes that you work with rotated objects often enough to justify dedicating a function key to a Command sequence that opens the "Set Grid" dialogue box, sets "Grid Angle" to "Next Mouse Drag", and closes the dialogue box, so that you need only one keystroke and one short click-drag to align the Grid with the rotated rectangle and other objects parallel to it, and the same keystroke and click-drag to return to normal orientation when done editing the skewed area. The Grid-Angle-and-stretch method is a little quicker if you normally keep the OI palette roller-shaded up and out of the way. The Object-Info-Palette method is a little quicker if you normally keep the OI palette opened and cluttering up the screen (which slows down your whole operation enough to offset any speed advantage in this one operation).

April 18: No answer yet from NNA, but I just had occaision to try the Registry editing described above, and it doesn't work. Changing the program file spec in the cited Registry key doesn't cause the specified program to automatically boot up and open an .MCD file when the .MCD file is double-clicked. It just starts to boot up and then automatically shuts down without opening the drawing file and without any error message. Unfortunately, I didn't think to try the easier method Skidee mentioned (right-click, "Open With...", "Browse", and "Always use this program to open these files"). I used Katie's method (remove, re-install, then check "Associate all file types with this version of VectorWorks" on the pop-up dialogue box). That worked.

quote: What is the point of the zoom line thickness command.... I was really surprised by the title of this thread, and by what other users have said here about their use of it. To each his own. As for me, the Zoom Line Thickness preference was the feature that impressed me most when I switched from AutoCad to VectorWorks. I wouldn't think of working without it. And it's closely linked to other superior VW features that allow most drafting to be done at about print-out size, so that you can see what the drawing looks like while working on it. "Drawing is seeing" is the time-honored aphorism, and it's easier to work on any kind of drawing if you can see it (as opposed to seeing some symbolic representation of it). In 5 years of use, I've never turned off Zoom Line Thickness, except once when cleaning up a sloppy file drawn by someone else, in which there were snap points so close to being co-linear that a line's thickness concealed points not on the line. Until reading this thread, I wouldn't have guessed that anyone would work with ZLT off.

quote: Originally posted by Thomas Wagensommerer: ... The ideal program should.... The key question here, which none of us can answer, is whether the terrific speed and efficiency of VectorWorks Rectangles would be diminished by giving all the capabilities of Polygons to Rectangles and vice versa. If it would, then the disparity should remain, even though it's not ideal. The ideal program would also operate at infinite speed. That will never happen, and we must accept the less-than-ideal, and decide which shortcoming is more critical. The Rectangle/Polygon disparity is not very difficult to work with, whereas the increasing sluggishness of the program and the prevalence of bugs is a considerable problem.

If what Raymond says is true, that making the proposed change would slow VW down, then I, too, would say leave it as is. The general trend of wish list items is to ask that VectorWorks do everything anyone can think of (and also everything that Brand X does), without regard for the fact that it all has a cost. We should be wishing only for critical improvements. The most troubling aspect of the program in recent years, and more of a problem than most of the wish list issues I've read, is how sluggish it's gotten.

Thank you, Katie. The problem from the users' point of view is that we can't see that "bounding box", or even see where it would fall (unless the container object happens to be a different color than everything else); so we have no control over what's being selected. When I first started using MiniCad and discovered this behavior, I simply stopped using Alt-selection except in cases where I know there are no container objects present. I've always thought of it as a defect in the program, but didn't mind so much since the program has enough well-designed selection techniques that I can easily get along without it.

Yes, it's the same in version 10. The guiding principle seems to be that an Alt selection box that touches any part of the theoretical rectangle formed by the most extreme points of a container object selects that object. So, for example, a triangle turned into a group or symbol can be selected without the lasso touching or even being inside the triangle. I agree with you that it shouldn't be that way. The container object should be selected only if one of its constituent elements would have been selected.

Display monitors have much lower resolution than printers and plotters, so they can't show line thickness accurately until you zoom in.

Aren't they obnoxious? It's hard to imagine what the program designers were thinking when they put in those full-screen dotted crosshairs at locus points. Even more obnoxious is the way to turn them off. There's no way to find it by logical deduction -- you just have to stumble across it accidentally. You have to un-check "Snap to Loci" in VectorWorks Preferences. As far as I can tell, un-checking "Snap to Loci" doesn't have any effect on the ability to snap to loci (which is controlled by the "Snap to Object" constraint on the Constraints palette). The "Snap to Loci" preference should be renamed "Clutter up the screen with uneditable fuzzy lines".

Katie, That's completely different from my experience with all versions of VectorWorks on Windows. If "Show Other Objects While in Groups" is NOT checked, then I can't see anything but the group while editing it. It's similar to editing a symbol. And that happens regardless of "Layer Options" setting. If it's checked, then I can see everything else while editing the group, just as before editing the group, and can snap to other objects on the same layer but not on other layers, again regardless of the "Layer Options" setting. And none of that is affected by where the objects are located or by how long I'm editing the group or whether I've done a transparent Pan in the group.