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Katie: If I may jump in:) Well, you hit the nail on the head with the problem. Unfortunately the solution you propose, at least my implementation of it, isn't working. To clarify... I place door label, input info, and then off to nowhereville it goes. Haven't tried the other labels yet, but somehow I get the idea this is going to be universal. Important points: 1. These plans were created in VW 8.5.2 with VW 8.5.2 symbols 2.The symbol convert function has VERY BAD results. Basically would mean going through every single window in the project and re-inputing all the variables because the convert tool displays them very strangly....in some cases they just disappear. Anyway, please don't tell me that is my only solution. ---Fearing that it would, I tested the theory by drawing a new wall/door and trying to place an ID tag. Same results. 3. Having read your previous reply, I used the set origin command to reset the 0,0 at a logical location ~centered in the plan. Didn't help:( In fact, the origin of the new symbol is ~(-4250'-0",+4200'-0") and the door is ~(5'-0",-10'-0") Any other ideas??? Thanks S

Thanks for all the suggestions. It would appear there is no good way to do this, but at least i now know that the create roof from polygon command is not going to do the job. Here is a list of questions and true/false statements that would help in going forward. 1. (T/F) There are 2 roof creation methods built into the program: create roof (from polygon or walls) and create roof face. 2. (T/F) There is NO way to use any 2d/3d editing commands such as trim and extend to create intersections between 2 different roof objects 3. What exactly is a roof object and how does it differ from a roof face? 4. Can you (and I have not been able to) use any 2d/3d editing commands such as trim and extend to create intersections between 2 different roof faces. 5. I have seen the combine roof comment in a couple of posts, can someone please explain how they are combining roof objects? I can go in there and build the thing with a bunch of surfaces easier than this. I already calculated the thing in plan, know all my ridge and eave heights....heck, what do i need a computer for I realize there is know way to expect a program to be able to figure out some these complex roof intersections without some manual manipulation, but as far as I can tell, the only way to edit a roof is to explode/ungroup the object. Which sort of defeats the purpose of using an object to begin with. For that matter, I have not succeeded in getting ungrouped roof planes to intersect/trim. Very frustrating!

I am trying to piece together an absurdly complex roof. As you can well imagine, the roof creation tool can't do this in one big procedure. What I am attempting to do is create all the different sections of the roof and the trim/join/intersect them into a complete roof. What I can't seem to do is get these roof sections to interact. Even as simple a procedure as getting two intersecting roofs to show the lines of intersection. What to do??? Thanks

That is exactly what i've done, but how the heck do you combine these roof sections??? BTW, I'm using 8.5.2 I've tried every tool I can find and none seem to have any effect. Having only worked with the program for a couple of weeks, there may well be some tools I haven't found. The process certainly isn't intuitive though.

Thanks for the tip Neil, I'll try it out. You are no doubt correct that new users can definitely expose confusing and/or inflexible functions in an application that the experienced user has developed workarounds that have become so natural they no longer think of them as workarounds. The frustrating part of this for me is that I was the experienced user last month and now I'm the "new" user. I could make AutoCad do anything I wanted and while it may seem absurdly complicated to the "new" user, it was endlessly flexible (at least it seemed so to this experienced user). Anyway, I will always be a frustrated user because I'm pretty sure the perfect tool will never find my computer. The reality is that if you really want a presentation quality model of your building your going to have to hire an experienced 3d modeler to build it. And they won't use VW or autocad to do it. Nor will they use objects. These objects are great for us architects, but modelers will always wants the flexibility of surfaces and solids. The architect will never have the time or money to spend on a great model. I completed a theatre last year where we (the client rather, as they wanted the model to help market the opening season) paid thousands to model the auditorium. It took weeks to build and model from our 2d plans and details. It did however come out beautifully as I worked closely with the modeler to map all the materials and place all of the lighting just as it would be on opening day. I could place 2 photos in front of you and you'd be hard pressed to identify the real deal. Someday i'd like to be able to build that model myself as part of the design/documentation process. We all have our dreams....

Again, thanks for the reply. I will definitely look into the window/door position functionality. I have seen the section in VW/Architect for wall problems. It just seems like those 5 conditions should be covered under a command like "wall heal". All the stretching and trimming and capping stuff is just a convoluted way of paching a problem that hopefully will be fixed with the wall clean-up tools in a future software update. As for the cabinets, is there a way to show uppers as dashed lines in the plan view? The idea being that the cutting plane is between the base and the upper. Currently i'm solving the problem by sending them under the base cab's and drawing a dashed polyline to represent the uppers above in plan.

Well for starters, the stair break issue is merely a symptom of a much larger problem. The larger problem revolves around the inflexiblity of static tools. As for the stair, the default break would be fine sometimes but other at times we want to show something under the stair which requires us to break the stair lower or at the opposite angle. All i really want to be able to do is toggle the angle of the break back and forth and locate where the break along the run of stairs. While on the stair topic, and keep in mind i've only used this program for 7 days, the stair tool itself seems rather simplistic. It would seem well conceived for a fire escape, but when you want to create a complex stair there doesn't seem to be any tools customize the shape of the stair or where the landings should occur. Basically i have had to resort to building floors for the landings and creating short straight stair runs for the stairs. Of course then you end up having to fill in railings at the landings. Is there a way to generate a stair along a path? I recognize designing this level of flexibility into a piece of software is somewhere between a herculean and impossible task. As far as drawing in 2d vs 3d goes, this is my point. I can draw 2d lines to represent exactly what i want to see in a contract document and IF there is a client need/desire for 3d or if i'm creating perspective views of a space i will build what i need in 3d for the view i want. Most of the framework is already there. Walls, doors, windows, cabinets generally work fine (although they are a pain to get working right). examples of the tedium:1. any time you have 3 or more wall elements coming together at the same point it takes a phenomenal amount of effort to get them to display properly. To the point where most peoplein the office have given up and accepted a certain amount of wall overlap. 2. Again, 7 days, but i can't for the life of me get doors and windows to insert logically (horizontally) in the walls. If i want them centered it works fine, but i would like to be able to specify a distance offset from a wall intersection (corner). 3. Getting cabinets to insert the way you want is trial and error. I have yet to figure out an intuitive way of determinining where the bloody things are going to snap/rotate to. I'm more determined than most, so if there is a way i'll find it. I won't give up that easily.

What determines where the 2d break goes? As it is, it basically will require drawing a 2d representation of the stair for CD purposes and use the 3d stair for modeling only. Obviously this is twice the work (or more) and not very efficient. What would be nice is if we could define the cutting plane for a level or could define break lines for objects manually. It's no wonder that everybody in the office has fallen back to using the program for 2d only. Seems like a waste to me, but the reality is our CD's will always be seen in 2d. If drawing in 3d is too labor intensive it will never be done on a regular basis. This was exactly my experience with ACAD/architectural desktop. It basically turned into a really expensive library of symbols and a nice schedule generator. We didn't even use he walls command in that program. It was just easier to draw lines. Ok, i'm stepping down from my soapbox now. I just so want to be able to justify drawing in 3d and it just doesn't seem likely any time soon.

and why does it hide the rail when 2d break is activated?

Any way to adjust where it places the 2d break?

ROFL Now I have about 200 stairs in the drawing!The class did in fact generate itself ans was turned off. Anyway to modify the auto-classing definitions?

Thanks for the reply.1. Using 8.5.2 (don't know if that makes a difference) 2. Your solution is of course the obvious and logical progression of things. Unfortunately, I do all that and get nada. It shows the ghost of the stair as I place the insertion point and then as I drag the orientation. Then, when i click the second time the stair is gone. It's hairpulling at it's best!

First off, i'm new to vectorworks (1 week ) As i'm plodding through this new tool (longtime acad veteran) i have run into a roadblock with respect to using the stair tool. No matter what I do with the settings, it absolutely refuses to place a stair. Since the manuals and online help have been of no use, I'm hoping somebody can explain the process of placing a 3d stair in a floorplan. Thanks in advance...