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Mark Aceto

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Posts posted by Mark Aceto


  1. On 12/18/2016 at 2:10 PM, corbinhand said:

    Has anyone else run into this? Any tips for fixing it?

     

    It's been years but I still have PTSD from the corrupted viewports that I would waste hours rendering only to be rendered useless (which is one reason why I still prefer dim's and notes on DL's instead of SL's, so I won't lose my work).

     

    More recently, as a troubleshooting step for a similar SLVP bug, changing the view in the OIP, and then changing it back again solved it. It's kind of like forcing a soft reset (and it's non-destructive).

     

    Also, as you're on a Mac, the usual voodoo like dumping user library caches could help (caches corrupt all the time).


  2. VW hates meshes, so:

     

    Step 2: simplify mesh

    Step 3: convert to a generic solid

     

    Nebertheless, it will continue to slow down DL and SLVP, and massively increase file size.

     

    The only rhino objects I import are custom (often grasshopper) “sculpted” models. Something like a cabinet, I would prefer to model natively in VW to keep the file lightweight and responsive.


  3. 21 hours ago, rjtiedeman said:

    Just switch to Corona and CD4.

     

    I'm not familiar with Corona but Renderworks aka "CineRender" is just a watered down port of Cinema which is also a CPU hog, and will use every core you throw at it. The issue isn't Mac vs PC. It's laptop vs workstation. That said, GPU-biased plugins like Redshift help speed up Cinema. Plus Cinema isn't bogged down by VW, so it's natively faster but still nothing compared to apps that render in real time using Unreal or Unity engines. It's all about tradeoffs... 


  4. 1 hour ago, rjtiedeman said:

    Thank You. After years of being stuck a a desk I was dreaming of a laptop that could free my creative spirit. Since I tried to open the steve kitchen 3d on my present Mac Pro I have come to realize how much I have missed holding on to old technology. The Youtube videos of the 2018 MacBook Pro with the vega20 chip look promising but there is no way to test Vectorworks previews unless I spend $5500 at the Apple store and I feel guilty returning. It’s a lot like buying showes on line except at crazy dollars.

     

    Even with a 10-core iMac Pro, it can still take hours to render using Renderworks, so the hardware isn't really the issue.


  5. I love that we're all obsessing over GPU's, multiple cores...  and then spend 15min individually updating a single revision note repeated on every single sheet of a drawing set. And the cherry on top is when I double click a revision note, nothing happens. Sort of like double clicking a column to autofit it will either A) autofit the column or B) minimize the column to 1 pixel wide or C) maximize the column 30' to the right.


    Dark mode would be nice but these are the UI/UX issues that consistently keep me at work past 11pm.

    • Like 2

  6. 22 minutes ago, Andrew Davies said:

    I couldn’t find a GPU card (that I could fit in an eGPU enclosure) that was USB-C out to the monitor 

     

    That's another stupid Apple thing (most great displays/GPU's are DP not T3) but I got one of these cables on Amazon to use with my iMac Pro and BenQ 4k display, and it works great: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075V27G2R/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

     

    I'm sure there are even more options available today.

    • Like 1

  7. 1 hour ago, Sky said:

    You can download the a revit file for a True Mfg refrigerator here: http://truefoodservice.kclcad.com/Mobile/?search=T-43

     

    Not sure if this helps in the short term while VW fixes that bug but I downloaded a DWG from that same link and it imported into VW 2019 SP2 on Mac OS 10.13.6* with no issues. BTW I use these double doors for events from time to time, so thanks for the link.

     

    *Understanding that this is a Mojave thread, just want to clarify that I'm on HS until 10.14.3 x 2019 SP3

     

    1328690917_ScreenShot2018-11-21at2_32_55PM.thumb.png.9be169da3cc2abe620a74954928db9e5.png

    • Like 1

  8. 6 hours ago, Jim Wilson said:

    The issue is that there is NO variable that can be changed at the present time to prevent Vectorworks from freezing in these scenarios. I will test CPU clock speed to see if that can help mitigate it, but it cannot be avoided entirely until we replace more of it's older systems.

     

    Something is getting lost in translation... While I appreciate your transparency and completely understand what you're saying about the code, I'm asking about hardware. When my system is reporting a single core choking at 4.26ghzregardless of what app I'm using - my interpretation of that data is to increase the clock speed. I don't expect a faster chip to solve the problem but I do hope that it will help with fewer freezes (more headroom).

     

    The reason I spec'd this iMac Pro with overkill RAM and VRAM was because I wanted to be certain, without a shadow of doubt or speculation, what hardware is constraining VW. For example, when my 2014 MacBook Pro runs out of memory (16gb), I'm left to wonder will 32gb be enough? But with 64gb RAM and 16gb VRAM, the only hardware constraint I've observed is single core performance.

     

    So, the question is: with the current code of VW 2019 as it stands, what is the CPU that will constrain VW the least? Based on what I'm seeing on a regular basis in the screenshot I provided, my guess is the i7 4-core 4.2ghz base clock speed that turbos to a theoretical 5.0ghz.

     


  9. On 11/13/2018 at 12:08 PM, Mark Aceto said:

    That's the part I'm confused about. My computer is flexing its full muscle (one muscle; one core) until it hits a ceiling and freezes the app, so i don't understand how a 2ghz muscle will have the same performance as a 4ghz muscle. I want the most headroom as possible before I hit that ceiling.

     

    On 11/13/2018 at 12:10 PM, Jim Wilson said:

    It is indeed confusing. Some of the older portions of Vectorworks are capable to completely utilizing a core... and doing hardly anything with that usage. However you're right, ill do a more modern test (I havent done a practical one since the Intel Core 2 Duo days now that I think about it)  and confirm how much of a factor clock speed really is both inside and outside of geometry.

     

    Screenshot attached of the single core CPU constraint that I described. Whether rotating a complex DWG import, importing/exporting a 3DM file, rendering a hidden line SLVP, publishing a drawing set or countless other operations...  this is the scenario that stops me in my tracks.

     

    2018 was far worse, so I'm grateful for the improvements in 2019 but this still happens constantly. In fact, there are some single cores operations that I can't complete on my 2014 MacBook Pro that I can complete on my 2017 iMac Pro, so I'd like to understand why a faster single core clock speed would not help me.

     

    Troubleshooting Process of Elimination

    • As you can see in the screenshot, the 16gb AMD GPU is barely being tapped at all (even with a 2nd 4k display), so that's not a factor
    • 64gb RAM is overkill, so that's not a factor
    • 10 cores certainly aren't holding me back on VW's 4-core limit, so there's only one factor that freezes the app: single core clock speed*
      • *Well, that and the fact that Apple throttles the CPU before turning on the fans, so I would love to know if there's an unofficial workaround to hit 4.5ghz (I've never caught it breaking 4.3ghz)

    Assessment

    • Adding RAM would not help (in fact, I could reduce to 32gb without lowering any performance)
    • Upgrading the GPU would not help (in fact, I could reduce to 8gb without lowering any performance)
    • Adding more cores would not help (in fact, reducing number of cores to increase single core clock speed would be an upgrade with the exception of CPU-based rendering which is fast becoming obsolete)
    • Unless I'm missing something, the only other variable left to prevent VW from freezing is to bump the single core clock speed

    Screen Shot 2018-11-18 at 8.44.05 PM (2).png


  10. 39 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:


    If Apple would freaking finally resume selling one, id push users to buy it. My main motivation with this eGPU testing is that it really, really, really seems like Apple wants to make everyone use eGPUs so that they can still make slim/tiny/aesthetically pleasing devices at the cost of performance. Theyre happy forcing users to carry half a dozen dongles everywhere with their laptop, so it would really not surprise me at this point if the new Mac Pro was just a glossy black sphere with 4 usbC ports that they expect you to plug eGPUs, displays, and dongles of all sorts into.

    I dont WANT them to do that, but it's looking more and more like they might, so im preparing information to support users if that eventually happens. I would LOVE to be completely wrong and for them to release a new modifiable, professional chassis that could last users another full decade, and if that happens i will gladly toss all this prep work in the trash.

     

    I'm afraid you're right. And we have three options:

    1. Pay them for this overpriced downclocked heat throttled consumer garbage, buy the eGPUs and dongles... and enable their nonsense
    2. Hold on to the cheesgraters and 2015 MBP's and vote with our dollars
    3. Build a hackintosh (except for laptops?)

    But I'm really looking forward to the next season of Carpool Karoke! [extreme sarcasm]


  11. 44 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:

    Yes, thats the geometry phase choking and not letting your computer flex it's full muscle, thats normally the fault of Vectorworks older code we havent yet replaced. 

     

    That's the part I'm confused about. My computer is flexing its full muscle (one muscle; one core) until it hits a ceiling and freezes the app, so i don't understand how a 2ghz muscle will have the same performance as a 4ghz muscle. I want the most headroom as possible before I hit that ceiling.

     


  12. 16 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:

    If you mean SECTION viewports on sheet layers, i suspect theyd be the same or in near-as-makes-no-difference territory, ill set up a clearer test later on but it can be hard to get 2 CPUs from the same generation where the only difference is the clock speed, ill see what i can get my hands on.

     

    Thanks, Jim. No, not sections; just plan, elevation, iso.

     

    I think for us Mac users, we’re looking at which one of the “greatest hits” will get us the most bang for our buck (and what features are a waste of money). In other words, how does a 2012 Mac Pro 12-core 1080 ti stack up against a 2017 iMac Pro 10-core Vega (exactly the same; I’ve own both) vs a maxed out iMac vs a MBP vs a maxed out Mini.

     

    The 1080 ti is a particular pain point because, although it’s a killer GPU, my understanding is the VW isn’t CUDA, the Mac web drivers suck, and Macs are optimized for AMD’s. So Mac users have all this FOMO over NVIDIA but meanwhile an AMD 580 is probably just as fast as a 1080 ti for using VW on a mac vs gaming on windows. Unfortunately, it’s Apple’s #thin&light laptops that take the biggest GPU hit, especially for the price.


  13. 8 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:

    Vectorworks' geometry calculation is SO inefficient and slow, that it is almost unnoticeably different between 2ghz and 4ghz clock speeds.

     

    How does this explain when Activity Monitor shows "Application Not Responding", a single core (or four) has maxed out one or both threads, and the GPU and RAM are barely being used. This seems like a clear cut example of (single core) CPU-constrained performance. And being that VW can't use more than four cores, that's also a constraint until SP?

     

    Do you have a side by side test of a current 2ghz and 4ghz machine? I'd be especially interested to see how they perform on sheet layers, as that seems to be where VW really puts on the brakes.


  14. 28 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

    I just went ahead and purchased a low end refurbished iMac Pro. I'd been waiting for a new iMac but my 2012 15" MacBook Pro was showing its age on my current projects so I had to find a new option. I'll be very disappointed if it doesn't trounce my current machine.

     

    , I would have sold you mine.

     

    The SLVP's are the typical ortho views: plan, front, side, iso. It seems like one way to speed it up is to quit and restart VW 2019 hourly.

     


  15. 17 minutes ago, Jim Wilson said:

    It does not, it's GPU holds it back significantly, but the cost is significantly less. The Mac Mini is $1,300 as I have it configured currently, that iMac config is $2,300. The Mini also has 12 logical cores instead of 8, so even with a lower clock speed it can trounce the iMac in CPU based renderings.

     

    How much does it cost with the eGPU?

     

    If I spec'd my workstation based on CPU rendering (which I did with this iMac Pro), I would be cutting off my nose to spite my face. VW 2019 is only capable of using 4 cores for all the modeling that comes before the rendering, and much of the time, it's still using 1 core. So if this iMac Pro is slow for modeling, I can only imagine how slow that Mac Mini is.

     

    It's easy to get caught up in the hype of numbers and specs and marketing... but the reality is that VW 2019 models fastest on a 2017 Mac with a built in 8GB GPU (that pales in comparison to a 1080 ti, sure, but VW 2019 isn't capable of maxing out the 580, so it won't feel any faster).

     

    I cannot express the crushing buyer's remorse of spending $$$$$ on a computer that runs VW slower than a $$$ computer. And the whole rendering thing... the third party GPU based renderers won. Why would I spend $$$$$$$$$$ on an 18-core machine that takes hours to render a still, when Unreal/TwinMotion, and Lumion can take a screenshot. Not to mention the higher core count cripples the single core clock speed. That's a terrible ROI for a business that runs on modeling, plating and rendering.

     


  16. Not seeing how this comes remotely close to the year old iMac with a base clock speed of 4.2 and a 580 built in (and costs less when configured the same).

     

    This is still the hierarchy for 80% of what I'm doing* in VW until Apple releases something new:

    1. Hackintosh
    2. 2017 iMac
    3. 2017 iMac Pro
    4. 2018 MacBook Pro + eGPU
    5. 2018 Mac Mini + eGPU

    * The speed boosts in 2019 were nice but I'm experiencing a 20% improvement at best. SLVP's are still excruciating on an iMac Pro, and I'm barely touching my GPU ever. The fastest base clock 4-core CPU + 8GB GPU + 32GB RAM + 4k display/s is still the sweet spot for using VW for the next year or so. And trying to configure that same machine to also render with Renderworks...  fuhgettaboutit.


  17. 3Dconnexion released a driver update on 10/31 with added support for Mojave if that helps anyone (didn't solve my reboot issue on HS):

     

    https://www.3dconnexion.com/service/drivers.html

     

    Version 10.6.0 (r2876; October 19, 2018). First public release of version 10.8.

    • New: 3DxMacCore v. 1.0.0 (b32, e88f6db; Oct 19, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxAcrobat3D v. 1.1.2 (r710; Oct 5, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxCollage v. 1.1.0 (r15444; Oct 16, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxMaya v. 4.5.1 (r15417; Oct 8, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxNLServer v. 1.3.1 (r15387; Oct 1, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxPair v. 2.2.0 (r15446; Oct 16, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxPuzzle v. 1.0.6 (r15445; Oct 16, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxPhotoshop v. 2.9.0 (r15412; Oct 5, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxSketchUp v. 4.6.0 (r15411, branches/4; Oct 5, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxTrainer v. 1.0.5 (r15443; Oct 16, 2018).
    • Updated: 3DxViewer v. 2.0.13 (r15441; Oct 16, 2018).
    • Removed: 3DPackage (replaced by 3DxMacCore).
    • New: [MAC-56] Add support for Apple macOS 10.14 ("Mojave").
    • New: [MAC-58] Added support for Adobe Photoshop CC 2018.
    • Fix: Removing a page via <Delete> key did not update the view in Collage.
    • Change: 3DxDemo now also opens on machines with no OpenGL acceleration. Demo
    • now also uses FSAA to improve rendering quality.
    • Change: Removed support for 32-bit editions of Trimble SketchUp. Minimum supported
    • SketchUp version is 2015 (64-bit).
    • Note: 3DxMacCore replaces the "3DPackage" component and includes 3DxDemo,
    • 3DxNumpad, 3DxRadialMenu, 3DxSNAxisDemo and 3DxVirtualLCD.
    • Like 2

 

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