TomMason
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Posts posted by TomMason
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um, have you ever used a 'spork'?
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Definitely not a politician, thankfully.
a) ok - what about a penknife to open a can of beans?
b) you must admit - it's not obvious where all the controls are in VW as it has slowly evolved over time...
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@Bryan G - great sarcasm, but not much content... SU = no solid modelling yet you can use boolean operations and get great rendering when using Radiance or suchlike - we're not in the business of re-creating the existing world here - we're in the business of re-presenting the real world - think theatre stage....or read a bit of Jon Ronson.
With regards Revit - our practice uses both VW and Revit - so I jump between them quite often and therefore I compare the operation of both. The reason I go on about it? if you read my previous posts I have outlined already that is the only comprehensive tool on the market at the mo that does pretty much everything without having to spend half your day figuring out the best way to do it (unless that's your job of course) which in my mind clears up the hours for what i'm in the business for = designing things.
In the design world surely all we want to do is design - in an ideal world we wouldn't be using computers to do this (well I wouldn't anyway) I'd be using pens and paper and a computer would be working out all the tedious crap like running databases, classifying info etc etc the crucial point is that CAD is a means to an end not an end in itself.
Your point about stripping all the 3D stuff out?
a) do you use a multitool to cut bread? or do you use a bread knife?
b) there are hundreds of young, brilliant designers coming out of schools at the moment and for them to be able to use a product as quickly as possible and to it's fullest extent - IMHO - is an enormous advantage. I know it's possible to do a great deal in VW with many years experience and learning it's idiosyncrasies - but I want to save the bits of my brain for retaining design/artistic detail and not I.T. info..
BTW I've already conceded that changing VW is (after all the sentiment in this thread) a non-starter - I still underline that there is a gap in the market for the software I've described...
I think I may have stepped into a technicians forum and not an architectural one
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@bcd - but you could have credited with me with the response you just made...check my synopsis - the response from everyone suggests that VW has a position in current CAD options - maybe my suggestion is more that there should be a programme for the more graphically minded architects out there.....which maybe isn't relevant on a VW improvements board : ) My Bad.
@Vincent C ....you can have door and window schedules without 3D!!! you would just associate a 2D elevation with the 2D symbol?!!? and you could attach BIM like info to this - essentially what we are all producing is database information. What did everyone work on before CAD existed? Drawing boards - did buildings get built? Yes? People still produce hand drawn information which is used on modern building sites (it happens in our office) My posit was that maybe what is needed out there is a really good digital drawing board (which IMHO VW used to be)
@AndiACD good point - I think this is where some of my frustration lies: that commands don't seem to work as easily as they once used to, it's buggy. Not good when you're under pressure and trying to produce high quality work...
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@DWorks - why do you want to model solid anyway?
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@DWorks - OK - sketchup doesn't make detailed 3D models/solids - but having used 3Dsmax and a glut of other proper 3D modelling programmes (inc Revit) VW is by far not the easiest/best and it is so not easier to model in VW than SU (which was my point)
@Bryan G hahaha - no I don't get commission from AutoDesk for Revit promotion, just for myself, at this time, it seems to me to be the future....it effectively acts as a database of all drawings/issue sheet/3D modelling and great rendering/good (not very good) 2D stuff/door schedules etc etc - it defo has limitations, but it seems to me to be the best holistic solution on the market at the mo.
Also we have been employed on several jobs because of our Revit exp. (this obviously isn't necessarily a good thing as it is just using what larger contractors/development companies seem to be requesting)
@Vincent C why not use InDesign/Illustrator? because like I said they could not schedule doors/windows etc etc symbols/blocks etc etc do I really need to tell you why I wouldn't use Illustrator to produce architectural drawings?
A point I take is flexibility....VW does give anyone the ability to use it in a huge number of different ways and what I'm suggesting is more of a niche for what I want to use it for - more artistic/graphic orientated drawing production. I suppose also that I would prefer to work with a programme that doesn't allow multiple options for doing stuff - there is one way and you don't have to spend a while thinking about how you will set up your folder structure/your class-layer drawing standards/class naming etc etc. This flexibility can also be a bad thing because without being fascist in the way in which you use VW in your office it can encourage everyone to have a different drawing style/order/method that isn't necessarily very easy to pick up someone else's project...
I'm glad people have started actually thinking/responding to my suggestion because @bcd was just f**king rude laughing....
@Jershaun - nice to hear I'm not pissing in the wind here
Synopsis - I don't think VW should change to what I'm suggesting, as I can see it has a loyal community of followers/users, but if anyone knows a good programmer out there who could knock up what I'm indicating - I really believe there is a niche market for this...
Cheers guys
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...and I did say controversial
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Have you tried doing anything raster based in VW? I'm on a:
iMac
Processor Name: Intel Core i7
Processor Speed: 2.93 GHz
Memory: 8 GB
...and it grinds like nobody's business with 5 x 1mb images on a single sheet...it's just not plausible. InDesign is fine with this amount of images.
Do you use the 3D function of VW? ...no one seems to want to answer my questions about what people actually use VW for!
I have only ever used it for 2D - I'd be happy to be proved wrong, and if people have experience of other CAD software (3D) and can give a balanced argument why VW really is superior to other 3D CAD software I would be really interested.....What are the bonuses of using VW over other CAD? I can't see any and I can see a niche for a CAD/DTP programme - no one else does it...
Maybe I've just walked into the house of VW and am blaspheming or something?!?!?
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@Christiaan So what do you use VW for then? Architecture/Civils? I assume you produce rendered 3D? Is not Sketchup and Radiance a better tool for this?
The CAD App I'm looking for would be a lot more graphics orientated - think Adobe Illustrator/InDesign more than just basic CAD.
I'm currently doing a competition and if all my 2D work could be amalgamated (A1 presentation sheets - CAD/graphics/photos/text rich) and I could then use it for producing details/GAs at a later date - then Job done.
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@miguel I think one of the other main arguments for using VW is it's cost - I've been using it now for 8 years quite happily after transferring from AC and it has, as you say been very effective at producing 2D drawings for a variety of projects from house extensions to ?6m+ schools here in the uk. If it wasn't as cheap and wasn't native to OSX then I think it's user base would jump ship.
What do you use VW for? 3D? BIM?
Have you ever used AC or MS or Revit?
My contention here is that having had a break of about 2 years - I have returned to a programme that IMHO no longer is as speedy and easy to use as it once was. This is probably a good percentage my rusty-ness, but surely it should be intuitive and obvious, especially with my fairly extensive experience? I jump back into Revit/Sketchup?AC with out a hitch.
Nemetschek seems to be moving it in a direction that I believe is a bad move (ie BIM) - where in the market is there a simple to use, intuitive 2D drafting programme that can produce DWGs/DXFs/PDFs and can be picked up by a graduate that hasn't used it ever before? Sketchup manages this, anyone can pick up sketchup and in minutes be producing solid looking 3D objects - All I'm saying is that instead of trying to do something that AutoDesk and others are doing very well - why not excel at what nobody else is doing? Intuitive 2D drafting; desk top publishing & ability to easily export for construction.
I have 5 years+ on AC; 2 years+ on MS; & 7 years+ on VW and 3 years+ on Revit.
Just sayin'
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Thanks for your serious comment guys
Do you really think that VW performs what it sets out to do? Do you think it is actually a competitor to the likes of Revit?
If you do - I think you guys need to get out a bit more
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Spaces are useless! I have just changed the graphic appearance of a space and the boundary changes!!!!! Aaaarrrgggghh!
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This might be slightly controversial, but I'm suggesting that ALL 3D elements in Vectorworks are removed and it concentrates on being an extremely efficient drafting tool.
I've recently been using a lot of Revit, which at first was difficult coming from VW2008 standard but once immersed into this environment it is a hugely useful system. Now, I've recently dipped back into using VW2011 Architect (I'm an Architect based in the UK) From my memories of VW being a smooth, easy to use 2D drafting tool it has become something (IMHO) stepping well beyond it's current limitations. Confusing screen planes/layer planes, tools not working smoothly, graphics jumping all over the place etc etc
Now to turn this into something positive - what I think VW should be concentrating on is combining the GUI and clarity of tools of sketchup, the DTP abilities of InDesign and the Graphic attributes of Illustrator to form a super slick, easy to use, one stop shop for Designers and Architects. There would be a HUGE market for a piece of software like this instead of VW trying to chase a product niche (REVIT) that it is not suited for.
What do you think?
Cheers!
Tom
controversial, but: NO 3D AT ALL IN VECTORWORKS!
in Wishlist - Feature and Content Requests
Posted
btw - I am a mac (or whatever irony allows me to take the piss out of MS' current add campaign) so I'm not sure what you're on about there
I run Revit in Parallels - don't even have to look at the windows desktop, all good.
Drafting? without repeating myself I'll just say raster images
Progress and change (which I'm all for) don't necessarily have to be more complicated - both MS and OSx have been improving their operating systems and all we get is the same stuff with a greater sheen - word is still laggy in complex docs - but it looks all shiny etc etc
Bottom line is Revit does it better than VW - have a go! you can download a 30day trial for free, and so endeth the sermon from AutoDesk!
(seriously though - i couldn't give a what company makes what CAD programmes people/I use but whatever it is it should function better than the rest)
....what software do you use when you are entering competitions and need some super flash graphics/text/raster images?