Lloyd NB

I purchased and worked through WV 2009, 10 and 11 precisely because I'm a "Smart Sized Company" - ie: one guy with some residences to design and because I loved working in 3D after learning Revit 2009 but couldn't afford it. So then with VW on my machine, one day I add a bunch of MS legitimate fonts to my machine and now VW no longer works. Won't even start. I ask for tech help and then I complain when nothing short of reinstalling the Op sys (without the fonts I want) will solve it. I write whats-his-name in the head office and tech support twice loses my information. Still cant use VW. No longer actually care. Now I learn that Autodesk, who I consider the dark side incarnate, will upgrade my ACAD 2010 LT with Revit LT Suite 2013 for about 750.00 US. It lacks only one tool I would like to have. At least it will start. Why am I even here writing this? Only in the expectation that whats-his-name will read this post too, along with all the other good reasons posted here to have held out for something - anything really, including Turbocad - that responds to the needs of a "Smart Sized Office". Sad really because I got to like the VW interface. Well, I liked the user interface actually, not the customer interface.... I also have dumped Cinema 4D (after about 9 years) for much the same reasons I dumped VW. Deaf-Ness. I now have "upgraded" to MODO 601 for actually 1/2 the upgrade cost of C4D. Better faster rendering and modeling tools. I really do hate Autodesk but this time, they are leading the way for this Smart Sized Office. And Luxology has the right ear, services, tools and price. Heads up Nem.

I recently dumped Revit because of the cost to me to keep subscriptions alive. I will miss all the really vast community, the models and the useful training and use hints available at no cost. Revit is much better integrated into the architectural community, suppliers, contractors and even building owners now. Even so and looking forward for my use of Vectorworks, especially now 2011 Architect, appears to serve the purpose very well enough. I love the doors and windows and the true 3D model space. I am a small operation now and so VW looks perfect for me. If I ever have to go back to Revit, I know that the training is easily accessible, much more intuitive and affordable - the community college here offers Revit classes for about 50.00 US a semester! An architect friend, who has just committed to Revit for his small one person operation, is fairly disgusted with the slow interface response of Revit 2010 and now 2011 when the files have much size to them. He has upgraded his processors and ram twice recently. He was told by Autodesk training to always keep a template file with all that might be needed as a start point. Even with his small-ish operation, the template file was bloated and unwieldy - so now ditching that idea - he has to (mostly) begin all over again with each new model.

I have some experience with both Revit 2009 and VW 2010 Architect.. .more with Revit at this time so this may not be worth too much to you. No software is going to acknowledge actual conditions on the job site as well as your own notes on your drawings will. This is the disclaimer missing from all architectural software shipping boxes and most training classes but it is the known variable in all places where stuff is drawn for buildings. For remodels, of course, factor this X10 or so. Drawings or software will not close the gap left by not being hands-on on the jobsite. But you already know that. I'd say that VW Architect will probably be best for you because I know what a genuine pain in the butt making families can be in Revit. What you seem to want is a CAD-accurate 3D modeling program, not necessarily a BIM application, but it would be nice for you to have schedules etc. to auto generate. This describes VW better it seems. It will be some work to get what you are describing in 3D from either application, but Revit will be a lot more work for the tasks you outline than will VW. Your Ex 1. No real need for a family in order to create tile patterns...unless I miss some subtle implications. Plain and good 3D or even 2D modeling skills should do this for you it seems. Tile is such an item-specific discipline. VW has array and copy commands that should do this for you well enough and possibly can count the full tiles etc as well without going to the trouble of families in Revit. How many tiles fit horizontally on a wall? Just divide a line drawn on the wall, by a certain tile dimemsion module, to find out. Whats left over is field cut. Arrange the cuts to suit graphically in the viewport and add a note to "verify on site", of course. VW does great graphics for these elevations and then you can slap them onto a sheet with cabs or fixtures in front and you have a presentation drawing. Less than 1/2 the cost of Revit. EX 2. More detailed and perhaps a little bit advanced 3D modeling, but nothing more. You could be modeling cheese or stone in Vectorworks but don't need a family in order to do it. If you don't need to refer to vertical relative levels where the stone is located on the site - graphically - then no need for Revit here either. If graphic location on the site or in the building is required, then Revit has a slight edge in simplicity of getting the information into a drawing. Ex 3. Who actually does this on a drawing - except with a note? Unless it is a hand drawing perhaps or very extreme where a template is absolute necessary? Got to make a template and verify the conditions on site. If needed, there are a number of drawing tools in VW to draw a curved or out of plumb wall - 2D and somewhat 3D, but the output is only as good as the input. This is the same law as for being on site with the tile and materials too. VW actually has the upper hand here when it is needed. Ex 4. VW can do this quite well, Revit is overkill for this. VW is a natural choice here. I agree with Wes above - seems that what you need is a 2D application instead of 3D -mostly. Vectorworks certainly is this. Growing into the 3D of VW in the future is an option and it will certainly make visualization easier for you. Oh yes, and VW makes passable renderings of your 3D models of fireplaces etc. You will need to learn the art of placing image files (like flat photos) of stone and tiles etc. on the 3D geometry of the model in order for your tiles and textures to show in the renderings. VW is easier here too. you can actually take a photo of a special tile and "apply" it onto the 3D geometry. It will render, with a little tweaking, in a very convincing manner. You'll be a hero (or heroine!) with your clients. Good luck. VW is a natural choice here.

Hi again bernas, A few thoughts.....I think it is a hard decision for some people to get and stay with Vectorworks for architecture - Windows users for example. For other architectural users it seems a simple enough decision for a number of reasons. . NNA could make it so much easier. They could do this for beginners by making thge learning process more accessible. Of course, this means sorting out the interface and workflow a bit too. I don't mean more pay per lesson tutorials either. NNA needs to extend itself a bit in order to gain and keep the interest of folks much like you and I who have some real questions about the present useability of the software and the future of the investment. I stand here scratching my head wondering what I'm doing wrong with a simple command while the deadline approaches! I'm going to continue working with mine. This is for 4 reasons ; I own it already, it is very powerful, it is not Autodesk, It does adequate 3D for my purposes. As you know, no BIM software is perfect. I prefer some aspects of Revit beause it is stable and the user interface is actually predictable, learning is very, very accessible, it is laid out well. There are many reasons to dislike Revit, but suffering over problems with any software, including Vectorworks, is optional and fruitless for me. Ultimately, the one that works is the one that makes my career easier or even maybe possible in some circumstances. I was able to finally locate a small user base of VW where I live and they are genuinely helpful. They also completely agree with me, that for a beginner, that it is daunting and maybe discouraging to try to figure out Vectorworks, Efficiently and in a Timely Manner, from the available materials. There is the clear sense of being 'milked" for cash to learn it. Where does it stop? How much does it really cost to use Vectorworks? It may or may not be much cheaper than Revit in the end. When we buy Vectorworks, we expect to be able to learn and use it efficiently in order to make a living from the investment. Was the investment worth it? We hold our breath..... I've done a little checking out Vectorworks users here in the city where I live. There are maybe 75 architects, designers, drafters and design/build contractors doing business here. I was a little surprised to find out that the most well respected architectural design firm here uses Vectorworks. They have 3 offices - 2 in the US and one overseas, all on VW. The second and third most respected design firms here also use VW! By 'design firms', I mean those architectural companies with emphasis on design, not on being a plans factory with workers whom they harvest like brocolli. The architecture factories use Revit without fail, but not all who use Revit are factories certainly. I wish you good luck and speedy answers. L

Hi bernas again...you have just been reading my mind. I feel exactly the same. I've used C4D since r6 and I much prefer it. I'd been finding clever ways to launder files through Rhino even and others from Autodesk Architecture '07+. I took a leap with Vectorworks and was encouraged to do so by a person at Maxon in fact. I thought this would solve a lot of problems and I even turned away from an excellent upgrade price on Revit from my ACAD LT. license. If this is all there is to work with, then it turns out that the best and most direct way now to get things (architectural drawings-models)into Cinema 4D is direct from ACAD as .dwg! What an irony. Good luck with this. If I find anything different I'll post here or drop you a message. I think I'll call Maxon Tech Suppport first and then maybe try to find an answer over at Creative Cow, C4D Cafe, CG Talk and another. In any case, there is a new handy little plugin for Cinema called "SpeedMud" which can be used for very elementary building shapes. It is a start, though no threat to VW or Revit for sure. I think it is only for r.11.5 though. L

bernas, I am having something of the same problem you describe but I have only used it twice so far and found things fairly well messed up in Z (Y in C4D). I did not have time to explore it completely yet but there seems to be either missing function or a bit of unclear information with the plugin. Do I understand that Maxon actually has a good plugin available - for a price - with the Architecture edition, but is allowing downloads of an inferior one for those who will not pay the price of the Architecture edition? Is this correct? The first time I tried it, in order to get all exported on the one layer that would be read by the plugin, I had to move all to a new layer I called "Export" . Same thing for the .3ds export. It does seem that the mothership might want to make this a little better process all the way around, for their own software at least. Maybe I just need to spend some more time with it to find out for sure. I'd appreciate any tips on this too.

I would be very interested in something like this. The timing would be perfect for me.

Fine work indeed and thanks for showing it.

I find that if something has been imported, forget selecting anything when the import object is nearby - regardless of its draw order or superimposition. Revit, like Archicad and other BIM sofware, offers the very most basic function of using the tab key to toggle through objects under the cursor. This seems a must-have for the next patch. For now, there is far too much unnecessary wheeling and zooming around and clicking just to test whether or not the desired object might be selected.

Great Info here! Thanks

Hello Mar, thanks very much. I just MUST remember to use double click. Works like a charm and much appreciated.

I have made a hole through a wall with the Create Wall Recess tool. After creation it seems almost entirely not editable. Is this correct? I cannot find any properties that can be edited except for the choice of 2 directions only. The original form used to boolean the recess/hole is not editable at all it seems. Is this true?

Thank you Tap, yes dimensions are going to be a little bit more involved. I appreciate your answer.

Just in case there is any interest at all, I spoke to tech support: The wall current insertion tool will only place the wall on one of three positions - center, or either face of the wall - all experienced user obviously know this. It currently does not have a switch or "u" key option to place the wall using the face of the actual core of the wall, ie: wood or metal stud or cmu. This core/offset placement choice must be input in one of the dialog boxes in MM or inches derived from your calcs. No problem, it can be done. But the tech rep did say that the ability to select the actual core of the wall as the placement point is planned for the future - I think he said the next release.

Hello, I searched a bit here but no joy... Am I missing something here? Is there a default snap choice for component walls that puts the structure (CMU, metal or wood studs or even the face of ext. sheathing would be nice too) on the edge of the slab? It doesn't look like it is here but I thought it would be a good idea to ask. That "other" software does this as a matter of course. I want to snap the face of the wall structure ( stud or CMU) at the face of the slab, this time. Then probably will have situations where I want the face of ext sheathing at the face of slab or stemwall. I want the slab dims to be in nice round inches, not 1/8ths etc. The wall tools seems to give only 3 options - either face of finished wall or the centre of a line drawn equally between the two faces . No snaps relate to the actual structure inside the wall. How do I know if the shear sheathing is going to be 1/2" or 2 layers of 5/8ths at this phase of the project? To compensate, I seem to have correctly made a Wall Style with the snap offset where I want it - on the face of stud - and named it appropriately. I''ve tested a window in the 6" stucco ext wall and all seems well, but are there other surprises down the road because I moved the snap point of the wall itself? Do I really want to use component walls after all? What would I start with to make this wall thickness with the correct offset snap and so that window frames are also correct? Regret all the newby questions....Many thanks!

Yes, Thanks both of you. I really like the idea of these as containers, though it is just in my head that it is a little more manageable. :-) And classes add to the flex too. Cool. Many thanks!

Hi Mr Gog, I really appreciate that you draw attention to the idea of layers as "containers" and I much better understand where they start and stop now - as containers. I'm getting started again with VW 2010 after a long setback and this clears up where I left off months ago. It is so clear now the reasoning. I also used Revit and the levels were quite flexible and graphically easy to understand. This does seem maybe a better way. I'm going to continue on with the introductions and tutorials but I am curious right now whether I can put a "container" inside a "container" as a concept - which would allow - say - a suspended partial floor or element which could be turned off visually independent of the container it is in? Thanks.