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P Retondo

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Posts posted by P Retondo

  1. Checkbox or the equivalent is a great idea. Seems to me also that there should be a more technically accurate term available from a pulldown list before each criterion condition: AND, OR, AND NOT. A AND B selects objects that satisfy both A and B. A OR B selects objects that satisfy either A or B. A AND NOT B selects objects that , well, you know.

    One of the problems I think VW is trying to solve is that the casual use of "and" in ordinary conversation can mean "OR" as used in programming. By automatically supplying the "OR" when a user selects "More Choices," the user will be educated and the technically knowledgeable can easily edit the "OR" to an "AND" if desired. By supplying "AND" with the selection "Fewer Choices," we could then edit that to "AND NOT", another possible interpretation of "Fewer Choices."

  2. Islandmon, thanks, much appreciated sympathy. I'll send you a handful of hair as a token of appreciation!

    To uninstall VW, check this board for recommendations by Katie. You basically delete the VW folder and the associated Nemetschek application data in user settings, and you can also manually delete registry items (usual disclaimers about not tinkering with the registry unless you are familiar).

  3. Tom, to be fair, I didn't experience the problem when I first installed 12.5.2. Something has happened in the meantime, and it may well have been something in a Windows or driver update that conflicts or interacts badly with VW. Not to say that NNA is off the hook, but I myself know how hard it is to deal with a moving target.

  4. Katie, when I open a new file in vw2008 and draw a wall, after my second click the blue bar at the top of the application window flashes about 15 or 20 times. When I draw a second wall, same thing. When I draw a thrird wall, just a few flashes. The same thing happens often (talking about 12.5.2 as well here) when: entering a viewport, clicking on a window or door, editing a callout.

    I think there are two issues here. One is the actual flashing, which might be triggered by an unnecessary call to redraw the screen. The second is that (my hunch) VW is doing some dynamic loading of resources, and even if you could eliminate the "flicker," you'd still have a program slowdown associated with the dynamic loading.

    I'd ask the engineers two things: 1) are loading these resources always necessary? 2) why is VW resorting to dynamic loading (assume to preserve RAM and to make the initial startup faster), and is this the best strategy to solve these problems?

    Windows XP boots a lot faster than Win 2000 did, and the reason (I think) is that it gets to functionality faster because it loads some modules when it gets the chance, rather than forcing everything to load into dynamic memory before anything can be done. So, one strategy for VW would be to get to the point where a file can be opened or a new file created really quickly (that's where most users start their session). Then load more stuff as the user is looking for their file - etc.

    I'm not clear that saving the RAM has to be a big priority. I have to admit I'm not familiar with the numbers, but it seems that if you have to load resources to draw a wall or deal with a window PIO, you have to load them sooner or later anyway.

    My hardware: Intel CoreDuo 3.2 GHz, 2GB RAM, NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450/4000 SDI w/ driver, Dell flatscreen monitor (2007WFP) w/ driver

  5. Matt, thanks for going to the trouble to create a graphic illustrating the specifics of the idea. To limit the operation of the override to "none" class is an interesting idea, although as DWorks points out, it's not the only way to go. But having the Viewport override settings supercede might void the usefulness of the whole idea, since Viewports on Sheet Layers are the current method of choice for many (but certainly not all) users when it comes to output - which is where the graphics count most.

    For me, this inheritance feature would have to be a user-controlled option, not a default or automatic thing.

    I don't know that this is impossible. AutoCAD programmers were able to do it, but given the structure of NNA's code it might be difficult.

  6. Matt, if I understand you correctly, that would create a conflict. Of course, there is no current option to have an object "inherit" a symbol's class attributes, so I'm assuming you mean that the object's attributes are set to "use class," and you want the meaning of that to be "use the symbol's class," not the other class NNA assigned to the object.

    If you ask an object's attributes to be overridden by both the symbol object's class and by the class override in a Viewport (N.B., these classes are different, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about the inheritance concept), there would be no way for the program to sort out which one has priority. Or, at the very least, there would be a conflict with the desire of those users who don't want the ACAD behavior to prevail, and have set up their systems to work with the way VW currently behaves.

    Think about this: a line in a symbol has class "A," and is set to dash style "by class." Class A has a solid linestyle (no dash). Under your inheritance proposal, if the symbol is assigned class "B" with a short dotted line, the line would become dotted. But suppose that in your viewport you have defined a class override whereby class A is set to a long dotted line. Which dash style will the line receive? It has to be determined to be one or the other. If it automatically receives the short dash, that frustrates the desire of users to have the viewport preference apply.

    On the other hand, if you mean to suggest that there be a new attribute option, for a symbol member object to "inherit" its attributes from the class of the symbol container, then that might be a workable alternative to give the user a choice. It would add a button in a different location, I hasten to add, and it wouldn't give us the nuanced control to assign some attributes, but not others, the inheritance behavior. Having another setting for every attribute for every object would be too much.

  7. Bill's right about how ACAD blocks work, and there's just no exact equivalent in VectorWorks. There are workarounds, but I think it's worth mulling over a wishlist item to NNA about coming up with something that will give more meaning and power to the class assignment given to container objects.

    With ACAD blocks, the attributes of some (not necessarily all) objects within a block can be overridden by assigning the block instance to a "layer" (= VW class) in the same way VW objects take on class attributes only if they have been created with the "by class" options selected.

    It strikes me that if there were a checkbox option on a symbol, whereby the user could choose to override member object attributes according to the class assignment of the symbol container object, that would do the job without creating a conflict with the normal way that classes can be modified in a Viewport. This would only operate on those objects and those attributes with "by class" selected. You could call this idea "optional inheritance."

  8. Bill, you can override the class attributes of your objects in a Viewport, so you don't need to create two symbols. If you want to display the same symbol in two different ways in one drawing, you'll need 2 viewports to do that.

    Look at the OIP with a viewport selected. Go to the "classes" button and when the list comes up, you can edit the class attributes, and those edits will apply in that viewport only. So you can change your linestyle to dotted for that viewport, for example.

    Window and Door PIO's as used straight from the window and door tools can be classed and will pick up class settings and viewport overrides in the manner you are asking for. Those aren't really symbols, per se, they're a different kind of object. So if you are looking for the easiest way to have a window or door be dotted in one plan and solid in another, assign them to a Demo class like the wall, and use viewport overrides to have that class display differently in different drawings.

  9. Peter, what is "windows XP compatibility mode?"

    Okay, researched that myself. I have been running without checking that option for almost a year, without experiencing problems. From what I understand, if you are in compatibility mode you may be unable to run 64 bit programs, and since some of those are part of the system, you might run into some problems. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the reason you can't run with 4 GB RAM. It's worth a try anyway, and I have an ulterior motive in getting you to try in that I'm uncertain whether to upgrade my RAM!

    I don't know why you are opting to use compatibility mode, but on my system the 32 bit emulator works just fine without resorting to compatibility mode. BTW, with 64 bit you could install 128 GB RAM! (assuming everything works and your buss could handle it!)

  10. Mike, do you think that this is mainly for folks who still do their printable output on Design Layers instead of Sheet Layers?

    I use Sheet Layers now for all output. The only use I think I have for Viewports on a design layer would be when I want to have more than one version of a detail on my Sheet Layer in a case where the detail is composed of 2d objects drawn over a Viewport.

  11. billtheia, you don't necessarily have to convert your symbols to groups. The same process will work in both converted and unconverted symbols.

    Enter the symbol or group to edit the objects. Change all the objects so that they take attributes by class. BE AWARE that it is the class of these objects, not the class of the group or symbol, that will affect how they look. So if you want to have a class that controls them, set one up and ASSIGN IT TO THE OBJECTS. Assigning that class to the symbol instance will not do anything. Assigning that class to a group will also do nothing, unless you are prompted by VW about whether you want the class assigned to the group's objects and respond affirmatively.

    So, I would suggest that you use some special class other than "None" to control how these objects look. The biggest use of this level of control is to customize class attributes in Viewports.

  12. Another problem with the NVIDIA GEForce 7600 video card!

    Peter, just for kicks, you might swap out your video card and see if that doesn't solve the problem. A couple of other users have reported problems on machines with that card.

    I've been running 12.5 on an x64 machine for about a year with no problem (different video card, though). x64 seems to emulate 32 bit processing just fine. I'd be curious to know what problem you had with 4 gigs of RAM, since I'm thinking about upgrading my 2 gigs.

  13. Blink, I would use NURBS for this project, and start by defining three or more circular NURBS curves, then use the lofting tool to create a solid, then use boolean process to carve out the middle, etc. Sample object created in two minutes or less by this process:


    If you want the bottom curve to be a faceted polygon, you can define a NURBS curve for that, and everything will be faired into a single shape when you loft. Or, you can subtract an extrude with faceted hollow inner face that clips the object in a manner similar to your image.

  14. This sounds like a memory leak to me. Pete, that was a good set of tests and observations. What is strange is that others who have been using this program with similar systems haven't reported the problem. So we need to give Katie all the information and cooperation we can to help isolate the cause. Don't lose hope! I reported a 2008 slowness issue regarding Viewports, and NNA engineers got right on it and solved the problem.

  15. Re: the screen flickering comments, I've experienced something like this as indicated above, but not to the degree some are reporting. So it seems to me that this is a complex situation that might have as much to do with the particular system as with the program itself. I would encourage everyone to post more complete system details. Mine:

    VW 12.5.2 and 2008; WinXP pro x64; Intel CoreDuo 3.2 Ghz; 2 GB RAM; NVIDIA quadro FX 3450/4000 w/ driver

    revit, in my mind your credibility is suspect because of the tone of your posts. I looked at the RA link, and Revit wasn't mentioned. Normally I'd just ignore comments like this, but in past posts you have shown some signs of being more serious.

    I've never used Revit, so I can't comment on the substance, but I have a hard time sorting out your complaint. How about giving us some specifics, such as how long you used Revit and in what context, how long you've worked with VW, and what your detailed comparison is? That would be useful. Crude language, **** or not, is uninformative.

  16. By "blinking monitor" do you mean that the VW window header and the little icons in the upper right seem to blink multiple times when doing certain operations? That is what I am seeing, and I'm waiting to get a good fix on it before submitting a report.

    Because this only seems to happen with complex projects with large filesize, my theory is that there is some kind of memory management going on in the background, and that the program is loading and unloading modules & resources in order to keep total RAM down. Or it could be as simple as some function call repeatedly asking for a window redraw.

    In either case, this needs to be re-engineered. As users, of course, we're more-or-less in the dark about the causes. The best we can do is give very detailed information to NNA. I think Katie is a good person to describe the problem to.

  17. Doesn't really contradict what Katie says. But I've never really been sure what the meaning of a "lineweight," etc., would be for a container object.

    BTW, it's not the active class attributes that would count, it's the class to which the object is assigned (could be one and the same unless the symbol was created to be assigned to a particular class when placed). You probably knew that.

    This does work the way you want it to, if the objects within the symbol are created as you normally do ("use class" for everything), and then you convert the symbol to a group and change the classes of the contained objects.


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