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@Thomas Wagensommererbim is a paradigm change. you can't compare it with simple drawing desk change from analog to digital. better get along with it before it's too late

you've got he answer from peter cipes referring to the walls' joints. nobody said it'd be easy, no other app is flawless, either. on the other hand: the faster you can cope with 3d the better off you are. in 5-7 years 2d will be a scarce minority. rob

@lineweight for a usual, traditional edifice you don't need anything outside of the standard building palette. if you're designing something organic it may be the case, but it's maybe up to 5% of the market (if really that high). how many such buildings have you designed recently? but, of course, lacking slanted walls is a huge drawback. rob

the only case where manual properties' manipulation is still necessary is for the free-form created objects. that's why starting bim with them is a bad idea. i hope marionette objects and their convertion to native ones will bridge the gap between the free-form objects and standard native elements. rob

coming back to ifc it's not as bad as it seems to be, i mean the assignment of the entities and fiiling in the properties. many of them are getting populated via the oips, and the interaction between the internal database of the software with ifc is improving from release to release. even facing the fact that ifc is present in vw only from v2009 sp4 on. manual handling of ifc psets is the last thing that is necessary for proper data saturation in the project file. vectorworks is now a full-fledged bim software, and stronger database basis of the likes of revit and archicad is getting irrelevant with ifc exports, where all data is present for further evaluation. rob

@zoomer, lineweight 3d solids is a bad way to start bim. you have to use standard elements, and only in extreme cases when it's not possible you use _your own_ solids, and not some ifc imports - it's just crazy, especially from applications that have their constant troubles with ifc. as for the walls, you can model in 3d everything, it's just the 2d view where you have sometimes to use patches, i've done it also for archicad some 5 years back - the model is a model, the 2d documentation is its result. for this i have my own 3d layers that are invisible in 2d documentation, but they complete my model. i think you're still focused on 2d output, not bim.

is the mouse for 3d modelling exclusively, or can you use it for architectural drafting in top/plan view, too?

samuel, thanks for the hint on annotations' possible ifc export. i'll have to test it myself. as for 2d or 3d elements they are set up to appear in the right position on the plans or in the models: for the models 2d layers are switched off, and for the plans all 3d layers that would mess up the 2d floor plans' appearance are switched off, too.

there is hardly any mentioning of vectorworks in all their newsletters, neither in the int'l one, nor in the localized one here in poland. everything is about revit and autodesk seek, although they claim to be aware of the vw deal with them from last year. the results are but pretty meager, except for the library itself, where the number of vw objects is growing. without broader advertisement you don't really notice them, though.

i think the most important thing is the energos data entry for all architectural elements in the oip's, especially the 2nd level space boundary definition and elements assignment (building envelope), when the edifice is properly rendered with data, the systems' calculations in the energos module are already pretty easy.

i put all my 2d elements for floor plans for each storey in separate design layers, which will be then switched off and invisible in the model exports (they don't get selected in the storey layout of the ifc export at all). the sections and elevations get annotated in the slvp's. i also put additionally modelled 3d elements in separate design layers, and this time those elements get exported and selected for ifc storey layout. i've noticed that the data inserted for standard elements in their oip get exported to further psets of ifc entities (beside the application-generated ones), so the native model is more or less interactive with the ifc model.

no, bim execution plan is something different. you can view the examples from the indiana (simpler) and penn state (more elaborated) universities on the net. e.g. here: BIM Execution Plan - Indiana University Bloomington

for the last 5 years i've modelled everything, even if nobody asked, and even for single-family detached houses, or even demolition objects. after all those years (i think) i've gained the experience to choose to model the significant stuff in the first place, but i still model more than enough. only in this way you'll acquire the modelling speed and efficiency. now i start all models with the raw definition of 3d geometry, and saturate the data along with the project's progress. and i assign everything to ifc as soon as possible, and check ifc exports in solibri model viewer very often. my next purchase will be simplebim, just to be sure everything is all right with ifc data. the ifc focus is essential... paralelly it's good to cooperate with the owner, but also with design consultants and other engineers in a more direct way. and, of course, bim execution plan is a must. rob

vincent, good luck, but see you back soon

sounds like a typical adesk propaganda. their open bim learning curve is really steep.

why not? i don't care about the technology, the processing power is improving from year to year, ios will improve, too, to be sufficient for the cad/bim software. my only concern is the paradigm change in the handling of the cursor with a finger instead of a mouse or a stick. but maybe just the apple pencil is the right direction? remember: the building site is getting faster and faster, designers can hardly find time to work in their offices, sometimes they are forced to change their drawings (or models, if generating the 2d output) in the office on the building site. rob

thanks, benson. actually i wanted to have a confirmation that 2d shapes made out of imagery might not accept shadows, i haven't found anything on this anywhere in the net. your workaround seems to be a good one, thanks rob

hi, does anybody know how to preserve the object shadow to the final look in rendering an object against the pdf or png 2d image? it's the same design layer. i see the shadow while rendering process, but afterwards it disappears... thanks.

try to remove the sills class or make it invisible, you'll see the result.

another reason not to touch the software in the production environment. i may repeat myself, though.

i'm also an early adopter, but there is a rule of thumb: never update/upgrade the software during the project. sometimes it can be highly advisable.

2. and how does energos handle it? which ones are assigned to the building envelope? 3. this is generally one of the reasons architects are afraid of bim. you have to put in the data in _all_ bim authoring tools.

1. i think you should assign two storeys, otherwise two slabs will get messed up. 2. two slabs for one storey? 3. it is always a good start for assigning values to ifc to have the models properly analysed in, say, ies ve or solibri model checker, just to compare with energos' results.

btw, how much thermal insulation do you have on top of the attic elements of the roof? if it's only 5 cm then you may have the thermal bridge...

1. have you set up the project with stories? 2. have you assigned proper design layers to particular stories? 3. have you checked the 'is building envelope' checkbox in the ifc property sets? 4. have you assigned the r value for all whole composed elements (slab or wall)?